4 ms·

The people who say that mostly support Trump, but are just embarrassed to say so in public.

mlrtime 1y ago
I voted for Trump. I don't support everything he does as he's not my sports team, but I agree with a lot of what he's doing. I've started this line of discussion on reddit many times being open and honest. Nobody wants to engage in honest discussion.
- DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
  Do you agree with things like the following? 1. Blatantly violating the 14th Amendment by signing an executive order that ends birthright citizenship, potentially stripping tens of millions of Americans of their citizenship. 2. Sending the military onto the streets of major cities, in a fundamental break from the centuries-old principle that the military does not police American citizens. 3. Tolerating open corruption by senior officials, such as the border czar Tom Homan accepting a $50,000 bribe. 4. Openly calling for the Justice Department to go after his political enemies, and firing people who refuse to do so. 5. Appointing dangerous and unqualified people like RFK Jr. and Kash Patel to head agencies whose missions they oppose. RFK Jr. is out there making wild claims about autism and vaccines. 6. Trump trying to overturn the 2020 Presidential election results, including calling up the Georgia Secretary of State and demanding that he add 11,000 votes to Trump's total, in order to flip the state in Trump's favor, while threatening to criminally prosecute the Secretary of State if he refuses to change the election result. 7. Trump repeatedly threatening that he will annex Canada, and refusing to rule out the use of military force. I could go on and on, but I think the above is enough to make the point. This is not just another administration that you can have this or that view about. This is the downfall of the American political system. RIP, 1787 - 2025. With all of this, you should be sheepish about saying you support Trump.
  - lunias 1y ago
    It's all about trade-offs. Sadly the package deals keep getting worse and even if you refuse to buy, one shows up at your doorstep and they charge you anyways. The parties exist more to oppose each other than to identify and address issues. They serve their donors more than their electorate and sew discontent amongst the populace to distract from the role of capital in the current system. I think it's unrealistic to say you "support everything Trump does" just as it is to say you "do not support anything Trump does". The trend of extreme polarization has allowed them to continually worsen the package deals offered because they know that for a lot of people, it's all or nothing.
    - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
      If you say you support someone who is fundamentally ripping out the American democratic political system, root and branch, then that's what you support. That's central to the "package deal." There's no, "Well, I don't like that he's ending the entire system of rule of law and respect for the results of elections, but I like policy X."
      - lunias 1y ago
        There definitely is: "I disagree with X (and maybe A, B, and C too), but I agree with Y." You may not feel that's reasonable or that the negative impacts of X far outweigh the positive effects of Y, but it's possible for people to arrive at this conclusion due to having limited choices and specific interests. Maybe you want to buy a sports car, but the dealer only has one coupe and it has a sunroof (that you don't want). You can go look at other dealerships for one with the package you like, but in a world where there is only one dealership you have to take what they give you. Lots of people will end up buying that coupe with a sunroof to take to the track. Especially if they approach their decision from a "I want a sports car" perspective and the other option is a minivan.
        DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
        We're not talking about buying a sports car. We're talking about the end of democracy and rule of law in the United States of America.
- chinathrow 1y ago
  > but I agree with a lot of what he's doing. As an outsider: what do you agree with he's doing specifically?
  - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
    It's always some combination of "screwing over foreigners / immigrants," "lowering my taxes" or "owning the woke libs."
    - mlrtime 1y ago
      "It's always". Please keep your generalities on bluesky or reddit with the other kids.
      - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
        It's the truth.
      - muwtyhg 1y ago
        You have been asked this exact question multiple times on this post and you have not answered a single time.
- happytoexplain 1y ago
  I don't hate people who voted for Trump. I sympathize with or outright agree with most conservative grievances (but not their expressions of those grievances). Supporting Trump, in the general sense, is not the same thing. E.g. "a lot", as you say, implies "majority" or at least more than one or two things, which, of the dozens of (meaningful) things Trump has done, is about how many I'd peg as "theoretically defensible" (for example: Immigration control and getting jobs back to America, both of which I agree with; but obviously not in practice due to his counter-productive/performative/un-American implementations). The rest fall pretty clearly into the category of "materially hurting my home country and my community". For example: Obliterating discourse, disrespecting rule of law, disrespecting the constitution, disrespecting rights and American principles, encouraging petty hatred and childish mockery, threatening to deport American citizens, calling every crime that might have been committed by a liberal "domestic terrorism", threatening via policy announced on Twitter to imprison my wife (who is a government worker) for the apparent crime of merely attempting to find a legal way to support our local legal immigrant(s) jailed by ICE for months for past non-violent non-drug-related crimes they have already finished serving for, which didn't even include jail time. The hysterical debasement of the amazing country my family has loved and served for hundreds of years. Just off the top of my head. There is no "I agree with some of it", or, "on average". It's moot, is what I mean. Yes, "honest discussion" is depressingly rare, but even truer: Focusing on the common person who isn't good at dispassionate political discourse is itself dishonest, when what's happening is hell.
  - mlrtime 1y ago
    Fwiw I never said here or anywhere else that I "support Trump"... taken out of context I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Just like every president I've voted for, I support some of their ideas and some not. This isn't a sports team where there is a winner and loser.
    - muwtyhg 1y ago
      Please, just list one or two things you actually support. You are being so evasive on actually backing up what you support of Trump.

I voted for Trump. I don't support everything he does as he's not my sports team, but I agree with a lot of what he's doing. I've started this line of discussion on reddit many times being open and honest. Nobody wants to engage in honest discussion.

DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
Do you agree with things like the following? 1. Blatantly violating the 14th Amendment by signing an executive order that ends birthright citizenship, potentially stripping tens of millions of Americans of their citizenship. 2. Sending the military onto the streets of major cities, in a fundamental break from the centuries-old principle that the military does not police American citizens. 3. Tolerating open corruption by senior officials, such as the border czar Tom Homan accepting a $50,000 bribe. 4. Openly calling for the Justice Department to go after his political enemies, and firing people who refuse to do so. 5. Appointing dangerous and unqualified people like RFK Jr. and Kash Patel to head agencies whose missions they oppose. RFK Jr. is out there making wild claims about autism and vaccines. 6. Trump trying to overturn the 2020 Presidential election results, including calling up the Georgia Secretary of State and demanding that he add 11,000 votes to Trump's total, in order to flip the state in Trump's favor, while threatening to criminally prosecute the Secretary of State if he refuses to change the election result. 7. Trump repeatedly threatening that he will annex Canada, and refusing to rule out the use of military force. I could go on and on, but I think the above is enough to make the point. This is not just another administration that you can have this or that view about. This is the downfall of the American political system. RIP, 1787 - 2025. With all of this, you should be sheepish about saying you support Trump.
- lunias 1y ago
  It's all about trade-offs. Sadly the package deals keep getting worse and even if you refuse to buy, one shows up at your doorstep and they charge you anyways. The parties exist more to oppose each other than to identify and address issues. They serve their donors more than their electorate and sew discontent amongst the populace to distract from the role of capital in the current system. I think it's unrealistic to say you "support everything Trump does" just as it is to say you "do not support anything Trump does". The trend of extreme polarization has allowed them to continually worsen the package deals offered because they know that for a lot of people, it's all or nothing.
  - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
    If you say you support someone who is fundamentally ripping out the American democratic political system, root and branch, then that's what you support. That's central to the "package deal." There's no, "Well, I don't like that he's ending the entire system of rule of law and respect for the results of elections, but I like policy X."
    - lunias 1y ago
      There definitely is: "I disagree with X (and maybe A, B, and C too), but I agree with Y." You may not feel that's reasonable or that the negative impacts of X far outweigh the positive effects of Y, but it's possible for people to arrive at this conclusion due to having limited choices and specific interests. Maybe you want to buy a sports car, but the dealer only has one coupe and it has a sunroof (that you don't want). You can go look at other dealerships for one with the package you like, but in a world where there is only one dealership you have to take what they give you. Lots of people will end up buying that coupe with a sunroof to take to the track. Especially if they approach their decision from a "I want a sports car" perspective and the other option is a minivan.
      - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
        We're not talking about buying a sports car. We're talking about the end of democracy and rule of law in the United States of America.
chinathrow 1y ago
> but I agree with a lot of what he's doing. As an outsider: what do you agree with he's doing specifically?
- DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
  It's always some combination of "screwing over foreigners / immigrants," "lowering my taxes" or "owning the woke libs."
  - mlrtime 1y ago
    "It's always". Please keep your generalities on bluesky or reddit with the other kids.
    - DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
      It's the truth.
    - muwtyhg 1y ago
      You have been asked this exact question multiple times on this post and you have not answered a single time.
happytoexplain 1y ago
I don't hate people who voted for Trump. I sympathize with or outright agree with most conservative grievances (but not their expressions of those grievances). Supporting Trump, in the general sense, is not the same thing. E.g. "a lot", as you say, implies "majority" or at least more than one or two things, which, of the dozens of (meaningful) things Trump has done, is about how many I'd peg as "theoretically defensible" (for example: Immigration control and getting jobs back to America, both of which I agree with; but obviously not in practice due to his counter-productive/performative/un-American implementations). The rest fall pretty clearly into the category of "materially hurting my home country and my community". For example: Obliterating discourse, disrespecting rule of law, disrespecting the constitution, disrespecting rights and American principles, encouraging petty hatred and childish mockery, threatening to deport American citizens, calling every crime that might have been committed by a liberal "domestic terrorism", threatening via policy announced on Twitter to imprison my wife (who is a government worker) for the apparent crime of merely attempting to find a legal way to support our local legal immigrant(s) jailed by ICE for months for past non-violent non-drug-related crimes they have already finished serving for, which didn't even include jail time. The hysterical debasement of the amazing country my family has loved and served for hundreds of years. Just off the top of my head. There is no "I agree with some of it", or, "on average". It's moot, is what I mean. Yes, "honest discussion" is depressingly rare, but even truer: Focusing on the common person who isn't good at dispassionate political discourse is itself dishonest, when what's happening is hell.
- mlrtime 1y ago
  Fwiw I never said here or anywhere else that I "support Trump"... taken out of context I don't know what that is supposed to mean. Just like every president I've voted for, I support some of their ideas and some not. This isn't a sports team where there is a winner and loser.
  - muwtyhg 1y ago
    Please, just list one or two things you actually support. You are being so evasive on actually backing up what you support of Trump.