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Everytime features are mentioned it makes me go: "it's all fun and games until someone puts tokio into the kernel", better yet if rust becomes complete enough a

Everytime features are mentioned it makes me go: "it's all fun and games until someone puts tokio into the kernel", better yet if rust becomes complete enough and someone makes a direct composition renderer we could have entire applications that run entirely in the kernel which could be... interesting.

aliceryhl 1y ago
It's trivial to implement an async runtime in the kernel. The kernel's workqueue is already essentially a runtime.
- jgilias 1y ago
  I was about to take offence at the use of “trivial” in this context. But then I noticed your handle, lol. You have the license to say that, thanks for your contributions!
  - aliceryhl 1y ago
    It never made it into upstream Linux, but there is already a sample implementation that Wedson wrote in 2022: https://github.com/Rust-for-Linux/linux/pull/798 https://github.com/Rust-for-Linux/linux/pull/798
- 3836293648 1y ago
  Won't that be an eager runtime though? Breaking Rust's assumption that futures do nothing until polled? Unless you don't submit it to the queue until the poll call, I guess
  - aliceryhl 1y ago
    It won't be different from Tokio. When you pass a future to tokio::spawn, that will also eagerly execute the future right away.
seabrookmx 1y ago
I'm not sure if you're joking, but if not this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how Rust (and C) are used in the kernel. Much like how you don't have the C stdlib when writing kernel code, Rust is used with the no_std option. You do not use cargo and do not have access to crates. You'd likely have to rewrite half of tokio to use kernel level abstractions for things like sockets and everything else that interacts with the OS.
- kachapopopow 1y ago
  that's the joke. I've made most of c runtime work in the windows kernel before though.
  - seabrookmx 1y ago
    Yeah that sounds a lot like nolibc which is basically a libc-ish shim that's in the Linux kernel tree.

aliceryhl 1y ago

It's trivial to implement an async runtime in the kernel. The kernel's workqueue is already essentially a runtime.

jgilias 1y ago
I was about to take offence at the use of “trivial” in this context. But then I noticed your handle, lol. You have the license to say that, thanks for your contributions!
- aliceryhl 1y ago
  It never made it into upstream Linux, but there is already a sample implementation that Wedson wrote in 2022: https://github.com/Rust-for-Linux/linux/pull/798 https://github.com/Rust-for-Linux/linux/pull/798
3836293648 1y ago
Won't that be an eager runtime though? Breaking Rust's assumption that futures do nothing until polled? Unless you don't submit it to the queue until the poll call, I guess
- aliceryhl 1y ago
  It won't be different from Tokio. When you pass a future to tokio::spawn, that will also eagerly execute the future right away.

seabrookmx 1y ago

I'm not sure if you're joking, but if not this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how Rust (and C) are used in the kernel. Much like how you don't have the C stdlib when writing kernel code, Rust is used with the no_std option. You do not use cargo and do not have access to crates. You'd likely have to rewrite half of tokio to use kernel level abstractions for things like sockets and everything else that interacts with the OS.

kachapopopow 1y ago
that's the joke. I've made most of c runtime work in the windows kernel before though.
- seabrookmx 1y ago
  Yeah that sounds a lot like nolibc which is basically a libc-ish shim that's in the Linux kernel tree.