4 ms·

Elsewhere in this thread you point out that he mentioned it in February last year. That was 18 months ago! They weren’t rude or abusive. That is not a grudge.

Elsewhere in this thread you point out that he mentioned it in February last year. That was 18 months ago! They weren’t rude or abusive. That is not a grudge. That is not slander. That is not a hill to die on. That is not an attack. This makes me wonder how many other minor bugs are dismissed by you as a grudge due to you overreacting like this. It makes me a lot less confident in your project. It’s perfectly fine for you to say ”this is low priority and we have no plans to fix it in the immediate future”. What’s not fine is treating it like a personal attack because they dared mention it twice in 18 months.

francislavoie 1y ago
Caddy doesn't hit the front page of HN all too often. But when it does, this issue gets brought up by one of two people. That's why it's annoying. It's so predictable and so annoying. We've already said our piece on the topic repeatedly, being asked to repeat ourselves again is insulting to us. Because "this is low priority and we have no plans to fix it in the immediate future" is clearly not an answer for someone who cares about this issue and mentions it again.
- JimDabell 1y ago
  You are not the sole audience for this discussion. Just because they mention something you have heard before, it doesn’t mean they are deliberately taunting or provoking you. I’m glad they mentioned it. This thread gave me important new information about the project.
  - francislavoie 1y ago
    We're perfectly within our rights to express how it makes us feel for it to be brought up, especially with the history we've had around it. It's caused us a lot of grief and we'd just like for it to stop being shoved in our face. That's all. If it was brought up by someone totally unique (not repeated by the same person as before, who we've already answered) then I would have had a different, more tactful response. I really don't think it's fair for you to make a judgement on me or the project from an interaction like this. At least judge the project on its technical merits. I've been very transparent here. But I can't stop you from having your thoughts. It is what it is.
    - JimDabell 1y ago
      > being asked to repeat ourselves again is insulting to us. > we'd just like for it to stop being shoved in our face. This is the comment you are referring to: > There still remains this simple to reproduce bug where the page doesn't load of you use the full domain name of a site. They aren’t asking you to repeat yourself. They aren’t shoving it in your face. This is an open discussion thread with many participants. They weren’t talking to you directly. This is information anybody here can find interesting and relevant. I did. > I really don't think it's fair for you to make a judgement on me or the project from an interaction like this. At least judge the project on its technical merits. How you are reacting to this is far more important to me than the original bug. Remember when 37signals suffered data loss because they were using GET requests to delete things? When people pointed out they had a bug, they were offended and blamed GWA. What happened next? The same thing happened all over again, users suffered more data loss. Or how about when Naomi Wu reported a problem with Signal, where the common use case of third-party keyboards for Chinese people was rendering all of their security worthless? They dismissed that as somebody with a grudge and ignored her for a year. What happened next? People found out that Chinese keyboards were compromised; she was 100% right, and Signal users were in danger. I’ve seen what happens when people have this attitude towards inconvenient people reporting inconvenient bugs. It’s a danger to users, and you are making Caddy seem dangerous with this attitude. I was a happy user of Caddy right up until this thread, and even halfway down this thread – even after reading the mention of the bug – but your reaction has flipped that to the opposite because I can’t trust that there aren’t more bugs you are handling this way.
      - francislavoie 1y ago
        It's the fact they bring it up again when we've made it clear our stance is the problem, not so much the actual words in today's post. It's also off-topic (not relating to project maintainership) and it's on a post I submitted myself to HN. I know you've already made up your mind, but look at our track record of answering support questions on the forums and tickets on GitHub, and you'll see that the picture you've formed in your mind from this thread is not accurate. Those comparisons are very straw-man and I won't entertain them. As I've already said, IMO there's more risk in introducing a new security bug in trying to fix this issue than there is leaving it as-is (failing fast and hard).
- hexbin010 1y ago
  [dead]
- xp84 1y ago
  I wish my biggest problem was that two people mentioned (correctly) a minor flaw I have, once every two years. You’ve explained why you won’t fix it (seems that you don’t feel you’ve got sufficient coverage to be confident to do so, or that it’s not possible to cover this type of change) so just put an faq up about it and do not take it personally. You cannot expect zero criticism.
kunley 1y ago
> This makes me wonder how many other minor bugs are dismissed by you as a grudge due to you overreacting like this. It makes me a lot less confident in your project. This makes me wonder how many other discussion threads are wasted by this kind of complaints. Overreaction to (alleged) overreaction never solves the problem!

francislavoie 1y ago

Caddy doesn't hit the front page of HN all too often. But when it does, this issue gets brought up by one of two people. That's why it's annoying. It's so predictable and so annoying. We've already said our piece on the topic repeatedly, being asked to repeat ourselves again is insulting to us. Because "this is low priority and we have no plans to fix it in the immediate future" is clearly not an answer for someone who cares about this issue and mentions it again.

JimDabell 1y ago
You are not the sole audience for this discussion. Just because they mention something you have heard before, it doesn’t mean they are deliberately taunting or provoking you. I’m glad they mentioned it. This thread gave me important new information about the project.
- francislavoie 1y ago
  We're perfectly within our rights to express how it makes us feel for it to be brought up, especially with the history we've had around it. It's caused us a lot of grief and we'd just like for it to stop being shoved in our face. That's all. If it was brought up by someone totally unique (not repeated by the same person as before, who we've already answered) then I would have had a different, more tactful response. I really don't think it's fair for you to make a judgement on me or the project from an interaction like this. At least judge the project on its technical merits. I've been very transparent here. But I can't stop you from having your thoughts. It is what it is.
  - JimDabell 1y ago
    > being asked to repeat ourselves again is insulting to us. > we'd just like for it to stop being shoved in our face. This is the comment you are referring to: > There still remains this simple to reproduce bug where the page doesn't load of you use the full domain name of a site. They aren’t asking you to repeat yourself. They aren’t shoving it in your face. This is an open discussion thread with many participants. They weren’t talking to you directly. This is information anybody here can find interesting and relevant. I did. > I really don't think it's fair for you to make a judgement on me or the project from an interaction like this. At least judge the project on its technical merits. How you are reacting to this is far more important to me than the original bug. Remember when 37signals suffered data loss because they were using GET requests to delete things? When people pointed out they had a bug, they were offended and blamed GWA. What happened next? The same thing happened all over again, users suffered more data loss. Or how about when Naomi Wu reported a problem with Signal, where the common use case of third-party keyboards for Chinese people was rendering all of their security worthless? They dismissed that as somebody with a grudge and ignored her for a year. What happened next? People found out that Chinese keyboards were compromised; she was 100% right, and Signal users were in danger. I’ve seen what happens when people have this attitude towards inconvenient people reporting inconvenient bugs. It’s a danger to users, and you are making Caddy seem dangerous with this attitude. I was a happy user of Caddy right up until this thread, and even halfway down this thread – even after reading the mention of the bug – but your reaction has flipped that to the opposite because I can’t trust that there aren’t more bugs you are handling this way.
    - francislavoie 1y ago
      It's the fact they bring it up again when we've made it clear our stance is the problem, not so much the actual words in today's post. It's also off-topic (not relating to project maintainership) and it's on a post I submitted myself to HN. I know you've already made up your mind, but look at our track record of answering support questions on the forums and tickets on GitHub, and you'll see that the picture you've formed in your mind from this thread is not accurate. Those comparisons are very straw-man and I won't entertain them. As I've already said, IMO there's more risk in introducing a new security bug in trying to fix this issue than there is leaving it as-is (failing fast and hard).
hexbin010 1y ago
[dead]
xp84 1y ago
I wish my biggest problem was that two people mentioned (correctly) a minor flaw I have, once every two years. You’ve explained why you won’t fix it (seems that you don’t feel you’ve got sufficient coverage to be confident to do so, or that it’s not possible to cover this type of change) so just put an faq up about it and do not take it personally. You cannot expect zero criticism.

kunley 1y ago

> This makes me wonder how many other minor bugs are dismissed by you as a grudge due to you overreacting like this. It makes me a lot less confident in your project. This makes me wonder how many other discussion threads are wasted by this kind of complaints. Overreaction to (alleged) overreaction never solves the problem!