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> Make sure libreoffice is included Probably an unpopular thing to say here, but in my experience pushing non-tech people to use libreoffice as part of a Linux

> Make sure libreoffice is included Probably an unpopular thing to say here, but in my experience pushing non-tech people to use libreoffice as part of a Linux transition is a fast track to getting them to hate Linux. Using Google Docs has been much more welcoming in my experience. Something about libreoffice doesn’t resonate with a lot of non-tech people.

d3Xt3r 1y ago
OnlyOffice might be a better option here - its UI is similar to MS Office, and it has a much better MS Office file format compatibility compared to LibreOffice.
- sitharus 1y ago
  I've never heard of OnlyOffice, but that really looks quite promising. I'll have a deeper look at it later, but even though it's all webapp based it can't really be slower than libreoffice...
  - wbpaelias 1y ago
    They have desktop apps too, in my machine I'm only using the desktop stuff.
foxandmouse 1y ago
Couldn’t agree more, if you’re pitching Linux to a non-technical user, you need a gentler off-ramp, not a cliff dive. LibreOffice is a UI time capsule..more archaeology than productivity. Most millennials would think they’d accidentally opened a flight simulator.
- bigstrat2003 1y ago
  > LibreOffice is a UI time capsule I'll grant that it's personal preference and OP should do what his customers prefer, but what you said is a good thing. UIs have sucked for some time now, so something which deliberately uses an older style is generally far superior.
- squigz 1y ago
  I was confused about this because last time I used LibreOffice it wasn't that bad. Turns out, it's really just a normal UI? I guess the biggest difference is it doesn't conform to Microsoft's design but to call it a time capsule is a bit dramatic.
  - amonith 1y ago
    I think by default after fresh install it suggests the "old" layout akin to Office 2000, but you can just select "tabbed ribbon" and then it really isn't half bad.
    - account42 1y ago
      You know we are living in crazy times when people actually actively ask for the ribbon interface instead of making fun of Microsoft for it. It's one of the worst things ever conceived in UI design.
      - amonith 1y ago
        Both have their issues but having 50 uncategorized icons (I just looked up default libre office ui screenshot and counted...) is something only a power user can love. They can keep their classic ui as an option. Categorized ribbon is an improvement for most people. Especially new generations who simply can't enjoy the effect of shared conventions with other software.
      - chipsrafferty 1y ago
        I just looked up the difference and I don't really feel a strong pull towards either style? Why are you so anti ribbon?
    - AuthAuth 1y ago
      The default layout is similar to office 2016
- darkwater 1y ago
  You have a ribbon-like UI nowadays, if you prefer that.
- Aurornis 1y ago
  I’m relieved to see I’m not alone. I expected my comment to be downvoted because speaking against LibreOffice triggers some people > LibreOffice is a UI time capsule..more archaeology than productivity. I agree. Seeing the comments here claiming the outdated UI is a good thing, actually, brings up one of the big problems with a lot of open source and/or Linux soecific software: The resistance to UI change is huge among die-hard users so the projects tend to get stuck in whatever UI language they had a decade ago when they started When I introduce people to open source versions of different software I find myself starting with “The UI has a steep learning curve, but…”. It would be so much easier if we could give people apps that were targeted at familiar UI patterns of today, even if it angers a vocal minority who want every UI to look like it came out of the 90s or early 2000s when they first discovered their love of computers.
  - underlipton 1y ago
    >The resistance to UI change is huge among die-hard users so the projects tend to get stuck in whatever UI language they had a decade ago when they started Oh, worse: stuck in whatever weird, half-baked UI decisions that were made because someone had a great idea that they did not test at all, or because they hated the industry standard approach that everyone else uses. It's no secret that Blender adoption exploded when they added normal menus, and then made right-click select an optional function, and then finally added an auto Maya-like interface option. But that's one instance where we lucked out. Not just because they fixed it, but also because the thing that needed to be fixed was in users' face and obvious.
  - chipsrafferty 1y ago
    I don't think it's that people want a certain nostalgic UI. It's that most of these applications are built by volunteers, for free, and are already understaffed. From an individual's perspective, it's much more important, and possible, to fix bug #155 or implement a new feature than to try to overhaul the entire UI. In order to do that, you'd have to get everyone on board and everyone would have to agree with the changes. A lot of projects are too flat as organizations for this to go smoothly.
- eblanshey 1y ago
  OTOH I installed it on my elderly mother's computer, and she said that it did everything that MS Office could do. She's perfectly happy with it.
malcolmxxx 1y ago
You’re right, you can’t push that hard. The new SO works, but it might not feel that way for newcomers. And LibreOffice… well, that’s another story.
morshu9001 1y ago
GDocs is so nice, haven't even thought about Office or similar software in years.
politelemon 1y ago
I agree with this despite being a libre office user. The introduction should be gentle, not dogmatic. No harm in using a browser based web application for this use case.
tim333 1y ago
I use Office all the time. But I see you can use "2010 or 2016 with Wine on Linux"? Which would be fine by me. Office 2010 does all you need really.
underlipton 1y ago
I usually take moments like this to relate my experience of OpenOffice (LibreOffice, prefork) blanking several of my documents, courtesy a bug that may or may not still be in LibreOffice. But this leads me to the reason I'm bringing it up now: the incre~dibly uncomfortable and unwelcoming experience of trying to pry 1) What happened, and 2) How to fix it out of the OO/LO volunteer support community. My understanding is that the issue is the way OO/LO and the OS work together to handle file writes, which will not be changed because Linux distros do it right and Windows does it wrong and too bad that I was trying to use OO on a Windows PC. But I can't get a straight answer, and even if I were to, it wouldn't fix the bug - because the bug would be that I was using Windows. And now that I know that this is something that happens, I don't have any real guarantee that tomorrow the problem won't be the particular distro that I use, or whatever weird personal ax-to-grind led to the design decision that would now be giving me a headache. And that probably goes doubly for your average Windows user who doesn't really know what they're getting into. Obviously, Google's support situation isn't any better. They've also had their share of catastrophic data loss fun-times. I genuinely don't know what the answer is.

d3Xt3r 1y ago

OnlyOffice might be a better option here - its UI is similar to MS Office, and it has a much better MS Office file format compatibility compared to LibreOffice.

sitharus 1y ago
I've never heard of OnlyOffice, but that really looks quite promising. I'll have a deeper look at it later, but even though it's all webapp based it can't really be slower than libreoffice...
- wbpaelias 1y ago
  They have desktop apps too, in my machine I'm only using the desktop stuff.

foxandmouse 1y ago

Couldn’t agree more, if you’re pitching Linux to a non-technical user, you need a gentler off-ramp, not a cliff dive. LibreOffice is a UI time capsule..more archaeology than productivity. Most millennials would think they’d accidentally opened a flight simulator.

bigstrat2003 1y ago
> LibreOffice is a UI time capsule I'll grant that it's personal preference and OP should do what his customers prefer, but what you said is a good thing. UIs have sucked for some time now, so something which deliberately uses an older style is generally far superior.
squigz 1y ago
I was confused about this because last time I used LibreOffice it wasn't that bad. Turns out, it's really just a normal UI? I guess the biggest difference is it doesn't conform to Microsoft's design but to call it a time capsule is a bit dramatic.
- amonith 1y ago
  I think by default after fresh install it suggests the "old" layout akin to Office 2000, but you can just select "tabbed ribbon" and then it really isn't half bad.
  - account42 1y ago
    You know we are living in crazy times when people actually actively ask for the ribbon interface instead of making fun of Microsoft for it. It's one of the worst things ever conceived in UI design.
    - amonith 1y ago
      Both have their issues but having 50 uncategorized icons (I just looked up default libre office ui screenshot and counted...) is something only a power user can love. They can keep their classic ui as an option. Categorized ribbon is an improvement for most people. Especially new generations who simply can't enjoy the effect of shared conventions with other software.
    - chipsrafferty 1y ago
      I just looked up the difference and I don't really feel a strong pull towards either style? Why are you so anti ribbon?
  - AuthAuth 1y ago
    The default layout is similar to office 2016
darkwater 1y ago
You have a ribbon-like UI nowadays, if you prefer that.
Aurornis 1y ago
I’m relieved to see I’m not alone. I expected my comment to be downvoted because speaking against LibreOffice triggers some people > LibreOffice is a UI time capsule..more archaeology than productivity. I agree. Seeing the comments here claiming the outdated UI is a good thing, actually, brings up one of the big problems with a lot of open source and/or Linux soecific software: The resistance to UI change is huge among die-hard users so the projects tend to get stuck in whatever UI language they had a decade ago when they started When I introduce people to open source versions of different software I find myself starting with “The UI has a steep learning curve, but…”. It would be so much easier if we could give people apps that were targeted at familiar UI patterns of today, even if it angers a vocal minority who want every UI to look like it came out of the 90s or early 2000s when they first discovered their love of computers.
- underlipton 1y ago
  >The resistance to UI change is huge among die-hard users so the projects tend to get stuck in whatever UI language they had a decade ago when they started Oh, worse: stuck in whatever weird, half-baked UI decisions that were made because someone had a great idea that they did not test at all, or because they hated the industry standard approach that everyone else uses. It's no secret that Blender adoption exploded when they added normal menus, and then made right-click select an optional function, and then finally added an auto Maya-like interface option. But that's one instance where we lucked out. Not just because they fixed it, but also because the thing that needed to be fixed was in users' face and obvious.
- chipsrafferty 1y ago
  I don't think it's that people want a certain nostalgic UI. It's that most of these applications are built by volunteers, for free, and are already understaffed. From an individual's perspective, it's much more important, and possible, to fix bug #155 or implement a new feature than to try to overhaul the entire UI. In order to do that, you'd have to get everyone on board and everyone would have to agree with the changes. A lot of projects are too flat as organizations for this to go smoothly.
eblanshey 1y ago
OTOH I installed it on my elderly mother's computer, and she said that it did everything that MS Office could do. She's perfectly happy with it.

malcolmxxx 1y ago

You’re right, you can’t push that hard. The new SO works, but it might not feel that way for newcomers. And LibreOffice… well, that’s another story.

morshu9001 1y ago

GDocs is so nice, haven't even thought about Office or similar software in years.

politelemon 1y ago

I agree with this despite being a libre office user. The introduction should be gentle, not dogmatic. No harm in using a browser based web application for this use case.

tim333 1y ago

I use Office all the time. But I see you can use "2010 or 2016 with Wine on Linux"? Which would be fine by me. Office 2010 does all you need really.

underlipton 1y ago

I usually take moments like this to relate my experience of OpenOffice (LibreOffice, prefork) blanking several of my documents, courtesy a bug that may or may not still be in LibreOffice. But this leads me to the reason I'm bringing it up now: the incre~dibly uncomfortable and unwelcoming experience of trying to pry 1) What happened, and 2) How to fix it out of the OO/LO volunteer support community. My understanding is that the issue is the way OO/LO and the OS work together to handle file writes, which will not be changed because Linux distros do it right and Windows does it wrong and too bad that I was trying to use OO on a Windows PC. But I can't get a straight answer, and even if I were to, it wouldn't fix the bug - because the bug would be that I was using Windows. And now that I know that this is something that happens, I don't have any real guarantee that tomorrow the problem won't be the particular distro that I use, or whatever weird personal ax-to-grind led to the design decision that would now be giving me a headache. And that probably goes doubly for your average Windows user who doesn't really know what they're getting into. Obviously, Google's support situation isn't any better. They've also had their share of catastrophic data loss fun-times. I genuinely don't know what the answer is.