5 ms·

We get it, you have a grudge. No need to post this comment every single time anything related to Caddy is posted on HN. PRs welcome if you want to propose a cha

We get it, you have a grudge. No need to post this comment every single time anything related to Caddy is posted on HN. PRs welcome if you want to propose a change.

charcircuit 1y ago
I think it's unfair to say that I post this every time when I've only mentioned it twice before, with the previous time being 2 years ago. I don't have a grudge, I just recognize it as an easy to reproduce bug that disqualifies me from using the software. I'm not itching to get off of nginx as I already have a site that works, so I have no motivation to do extra work to fix bugs in other projects.
- francislavoie 1y ago
  Last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474419 and you also said "I have only brought this up once before on HN and it was over 2 years ago." in that same thread. Still, only you and one other person with a similar grudge have ever complained about it (we've never had any github issues opened about it in years, neither on our forums) and nobody who cares has attempted to solve it with code changes.
  - charcircuit 1y ago
    I'll admit I don't have perfect memory of my comments. I'll also admit this is a niche feature.
  - eduction 1y ago
    Instead of poring over this person’s history maybe fix the bug?
    - francislavoie 1y ago
      Why would we work on something we don't care about, for free? If they paid a sponsorship, that would allow us (moreso Matt) to spend the time looking into it. Or, people complaining about it can spend their own time finding a solution rather than making noise like this. (Also - I didn't "pore over", I simply searched for "caddyserver.com." in HN's search and it turned up every time two specific individuals brought this up)
      - eduction 1y ago
        Ok fine, instead of poring over someone’s comment history why not enjoy some free time?
        francislavoie 1y ago
        Because leaving comments like that unaddressed/unclarified does not serve the public reading this thread.
        bombcar 1y ago
        It's served this public to realize that there's obviously some serious flaw somewhere in the software that means fixing this isn't easy, or it would have been done. Which is sad, as now I have to reconsider.
        francislavoie 1y ago
        We've not seen a good enough argument that it's worth our time investigating. This seems like something that only affects something like 0.00001% of users. It may be simple, but it also means extensive testing to make sure any kind of fix doesn't also break other things. With how extensive Caddy's usecases are, we have to be careful with any change, especially low-level ones involving TLS and host matching. We could accidentally introduce somekind of request smuggling security bug for example if proper care isn't taken.
      - throwaway-0001 1y ago
  - yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
    > we've never had any github issues opened about it in years, neither on our forums Looks like https://github.com/caddyserver/caddy/issues/1632 https://github.com/caddyserver/caddy/issues/1632 to me?
    - francislavoie 1y ago
      Yes, for Caddy v0, which is no longer relevant because Caddy v2 was a rewrite from the ground up. No issues have been opened by anyone who cares about this since Caddy v2 was released over 5 years ago.
- ascorbic 1y ago
  It's ironic that you are bringing it up on a post about the toll that responding to issues is having on their mental health. I can see why it would strike a nerve if you do so on almost every front page post about Caddy.
eduction 1y ago
You responded to a specific technical observation stated briefly and without emotion with a nasty personal attack. Oh and now I see you work on the project. Hard pass on Caddy if this is how you respond to mild criticism.
- francislavoie 1y ago
  We've felt attacked by people trying to slander the project due to this specific technical issue. It's exhausting. Either way, like I said, we'd be glad to accept contributions to solve this.
  - VenturingVole 1y ago
    It's an awesome project and I imagine it has saved countless production incidents. The amount of times I've said "it was probably certificate expiry" and been correct is reasonably high. In my own cases of responsibility, Caddy would have eliminated them had it been around. Instead I've learned to be paranoid, though having things like this are far better in terms of easing cognitive burden. Cheers for all of the hard work by you and other maintainers.
    - Silhouette 1y ago
      I too have used Caddy on multiple production systems. It's a great bit of software. I try to avoid engaging in online flame wars but I will say that the developers - including Francis - have been nothing but helpful and courteous to me personally and I've also learned a lot from their numerous positive contributions to Caddy-related forums.
  - eduction 1y ago
    People are allowed to crticize a project whether or not they want to fix it. It was a mild, brief mention of one issue. Accurate, too, so not slander. You seem to think there is a conspiracy against Caddy. That seems doubtful. But I could see disproportionate defensiveness like what is on display here causing some people to not be fans.
VenturingVole 1y ago
My 1st thought: The comment to which you are replying is why I'm not sure I'd have the patience to maintain an OS project. Though the older I get, the better I get at ignoring certain things. My 2nd thought: Actually, this is very likely a culture/communication difference whereby both people care (I'm a big fan of Erin Meyer's work here) My 3rd thought: I wonder what happens if I provide this repo and the chat comments to codex. Outcome: https://github.com/wsimmonds/caddy/pull/1 https://github.com/wsimmonds/caddy/pull/1 My 4th though: Perhaps I can make 'enemies' become friends if they both have disdain for AI ;) Note: I would absolutely not submit this as-is. Caddy's an amazing project though I am not very familiar with its implementation and I'd seek to understand it, conventions etc. and make some obvious improvements to the code which has been generated - but this was a minor bit of fun. I created 4 separate versions and only in one of them did anything with TLS related get amended.
- cindyllm 1y ago
  [dead]

We get it, you have a grudge. No need to post this comment every single time anything related to Caddy is posted on HN. PRs welcome if you want to propose a change.

charcircuit 1y ago

I think it's unfair to say that I post this every time when I've only mentioned it twice before, with the previous time being 2 years ago. I don't have a grudge, I just recognize it as an easy to reproduce bug that disqualifies me from using the software. I'm not itching to get off of nginx as I already have a site that works, so I have no motivation to do extra work to fix bugs in other projects.

francislavoie 1y ago
Last year: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474419 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39474419 and you also said "I have only brought this up once before on HN and it was over 2 years ago." in that same thread. Still, only you and one other person with a similar grudge have ever complained about it (we've never had any github issues opened about it in years, neither on our forums) and nobody who cares has attempted to solve it with code changes.
- charcircuit 1y ago
  I'll admit I don't have perfect memory of my comments. I'll also admit this is a niche feature.
- eduction 1y ago
  Instead of poring over this person’s history maybe fix the bug?
  - francislavoie 1y ago
    Why would we work on something we don't care about, for free? If they paid a sponsorship, that would allow us (moreso Matt) to spend the time looking into it. Or, people complaining about it can spend their own time finding a solution rather than making noise like this. (Also - I didn't "pore over", I simply searched for "caddyserver.com." in HN's search and it turned up every time two specific individuals brought this up)
    - eduction 1y ago
      Ok fine, instead of poring over someone’s comment history why not enjoy some free time?
      - francislavoie 1y ago
        Because leaving comments like that unaddressed/unclarified does not serve the public reading this thread.
        bombcar 1y ago
        It's served this public to realize that there's obviously some serious flaw somewhere in the software that means fixing this isn't easy, or it would have been done. Which is sad, as now I have to reconsider.
        francislavoie 1y ago
        We've not seen a good enough argument that it's worth our time investigating. This seems like something that only affects something like 0.00001% of users. It may be simple, but it also means extensive testing to make sure any kind of fix doesn't also break other things. With how extensive Caddy's usecases are, we have to be careful with any change, especially low-level ones involving TLS and host matching. We could accidentally introduce somekind of request smuggling security bug for example if proper care isn't taken.
    - throwaway-0001 1y ago
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  > we've never had any github issues opened about it in years, neither on our forums Looks like https://github.com/caddyserver/caddy/issues/1632 https://github.com/caddyserver/caddy/issues/1632 to me?
  - francislavoie 1y ago
    Yes, for Caddy v0, which is no longer relevant because Caddy v2 was a rewrite from the ground up. No issues have been opened by anyone who cares about this since Caddy v2 was released over 5 years ago.
ascorbic 1y ago
It's ironic that you are bringing it up on a post about the toll that responding to issues is having on their mental health. I can see why it would strike a nerve if you do so on almost every front page post about Caddy.

eduction 1y ago

You responded to a specific technical observation stated briefly and without emotion with a nasty personal attack. Oh and now I see you work on the project. Hard pass on Caddy if this is how you respond to mild criticism.

francislavoie 1y ago
We've felt attacked by people trying to slander the project due to this specific technical issue. It's exhausting. Either way, like I said, we'd be glad to accept contributions to solve this.
- VenturingVole 1y ago
  It's an awesome project and I imagine it has saved countless production incidents. The amount of times I've said "it was probably certificate expiry" and been correct is reasonably high. In my own cases of responsibility, Caddy would have eliminated them had it been around. Instead I've learned to be paranoid, though having things like this are far better in terms of easing cognitive burden. Cheers for all of the hard work by you and other maintainers.
  - Silhouette 1y ago
    I too have used Caddy on multiple production systems. It's a great bit of software. I try to avoid engaging in online flame wars but I will say that the developers - including Francis - have been nothing but helpful and courteous to me personally and I've also learned a lot from their numerous positive contributions to Caddy-related forums.
- eduction 1y ago
  People are allowed to crticize a project whether or not they want to fix it. It was a mild, brief mention of one issue. Accurate, too, so not slander. You seem to think there is a conspiracy against Caddy. That seems doubtful. But I could see disproportionate defensiveness like what is on display here causing some people to not be fans.

VenturingVole 1y ago

My 1st thought: The comment to which you are replying is why I'm not sure I'd have the patience to maintain an OS project. Though the older I get, the better I get at ignoring certain things. My 2nd thought: Actually, this is very likely a culture/communication difference whereby both people care (I'm a big fan of Erin Meyer's work here) My 3rd thought: I wonder what happens if I provide this repo and the chat comments to codex. Outcome: https://github.com/wsimmonds/caddy/pull/1 https://github.com/wsimmonds/caddy/pull/1 My 4th though: Perhaps I can make 'enemies' become friends if they both have disdain for AI ;) Note: I would absolutely not submit this as-is. Caddy's an amazing project though I am not very familiar with its implementation and I'd seek to understand it, conventions etc. and make some obvious improvements to the code which has been generated - but this was a minor bit of fun. I created 4 separate versions and only in one of them did anything with TLS related get amended.

cindyllm 1y ago
[dead]