3 ms·

Ok, so.. I don't know how to say this without sounding insensitive, but I'm a pretty traditional looking (albeit perhaps short) British, blue-eyed, white guy.

by dijit 1y ago

Ok, so.. I don't know how to say this without sounding insensitive, but I'm a pretty traditional looking (albeit perhaps short) British, blue-eyed, white guy. I have seriously never had a positive interaction with the US border force. Wether it's the TSA or another associated organisation (since I've been pestered by people who are not TSA). I've been detained, questioned, randomly selected, given contradictory rules by different people, had things randomly confiscated and even been insulted. I'm not confrontational, and I don't believe I stand out. I have had exactly ONE positive interaction (in 2011) whereby I had accidentally travelled with a pocket knife in my checked luggage and due to the fact I was not allowed to check my luggage on the return journey (due to the train being delayed going into Newark; seriously, I understand why Americans distrust public transport) - I told the TSA agent about it and he was kind regarding it, offering condolences, but obviously destroying the knife. I'm not sure if I'm on some kind of easing program to disincentivise me in particular from visiting the US, but I could easily see that if I was anything other than what I am in terms of race/religion/looks/citizenship: that I would presume that this was the reason. And, for context, I've been to the US on average twice per year in the last 15 years, so this is my experience from around 30 trips, and 60-ish interactions with the international air apparatus. It's a pretty decent country once I'm in though, though I wouldn't want to live there. EDIT: I'm not sure why the parent is being downvoted, his anecdote is the same as mine.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> I have seriously never had a positive interaction with the US border force. Wether it's the TSA or another associated organisation (since I've been pestered by people who are not TSA) The trick is to pay to not interact. Global Entry, TSA PreCheck with Digital ID, et cetera. And for the record, I'm dark-eyed and brown skinned. There are absolutely racists in the Trump administration. But they don't seem to have co-opted this element yet. Instead, it just presents the classic American preference for wealth. (Note: I'm not endorsing the system. TSA PreCheck makes sense; the fee for it does not. Same for Global Entry.)
- hopelite 1y ago
  Ah yes, the “give in to the system” strategy to avoid the deliberate conditioning to force everyone into the panopticon. One easy trick to world domination prison planet…
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > the “give in to the system” strategy to avoid the deliberate conditioning to force everyone into the panopticon I'm not sure what I'm giving up by ceding fingerprints and a picture to a government agency that almost certainly already has both.
    - hopelite 1y ago
      It’s not the simple act of just “giving them what they likely already have” once that house booked about 20 years ago. And yes, I can sue you the government had way more on me, but I seem to at least realize that that stallion is long gone. You seem to represent a rather is phenomenon in society though. For a lack of a better term at the moment; the shift or maybe even deliberate psychological manipulation of society, civilization, culture towards not only a passive, depressive state, but also a kind of self-harming, self-destructive, nihilistic state of “what does it even matter anymore” and “I probably deserve the abuse of my abusers” type of mentality. A variation of that is “I’m not sure what I’m giving up by ceding…” an odd fatalism.
- hitarpetar 1y ago
  you meant to write unequal treatment for the wealthy right?
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > you meant to write unequal treatment for the wealthy right? Yes. I'm not endorsing the system. Just stating why folks on HN might be having wildly different experiences. Broadly speaking, if you have to interact with border control or airport security, you're going to have a bad time. The stupid, lazy and mean are overrepresented in their ranks. You may have a slightly-worse time with particularly physical affects. But I've absolutely watched my British-accented white friend from Atlanta get singled out every time for fuckery by their TSA. If, on the other hand, you get the unequal wealth treatment, you won't see a disparity. Because there isn't one. You're rarely interacting with a human being.
ceejayoz 1y ago
Both things can be true; that it's on average a shitty experience, and that it's on average an even shittier experience for folks of certain demographics.
- dijit 1y ago
  I genuinely can't understand how it can be shittier. Unless they're taking liberties with your wife and children or something.
  - ceejayoz 1y ago
    You can't imagine a shittier outcome for bringing a banned weapon into an airport than "I told the TSA agent about it and he was kind regarding it, offering condolences"?
    - dijit 1y ago
      That was my one positive interaction, and yes it could have gone a lot worse, as mentioned. 1/60 is not exactly batting a thousand. Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse. Rude, tense, confusing, authoritarian with arbitrary detainment - with no acknowledgement of time or empathy for your own obligations (to board the plane for example); and heaven help you if you express your frustration.
      - ceejayoz 1y ago
        > Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse. Rude, tense, confusing and authoritarian; and heaven help you if you express your frustration. https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/immigration/shocked-and-humiliated-lawsuits-accuse-customs-border-officers-of-invasive-searches-of-minors-women/ https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/i... "Yet in these suits, innocent women — including minor girls — who were not found with any contraband say CBP officers subjected them to harsh interrogation that led to indignities that included unreasonable strip searches while menstruating to prohibited genital probing. Some women were also handcuffed and transported to hospitals where, against their will, they underwent pelvic exams, X-rays and in one case, drugging via IV, according to suits. Invasive medical procedures require a detainee’s consent or a warrant. In two cases, women were billed for procedures."

by dijit 1y ago

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> I have seriously never had a positive interaction with the US border force. Wether it's the TSA or another associated organisation (since I've been pestered by people who are not TSA) The trick is to pay to not interact. Global Entry, TSA PreCheck with Digital ID, et cetera. And for the record, I'm dark-eyed and brown skinned. There are absolutely racists in the Trump administration. But they don't seem to have co-opted this element yet. Instead, it just presents the classic American preference for wealth. (Note: I'm not endorsing the system. TSA PreCheck makes sense; the fee for it does not. Same for Global Entry.)

hopelite 1y ago
Ah yes, the “give in to the system” strategy to avoid the deliberate conditioning to force everyone into the panopticon. One easy trick to world domination prison planet…
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > the “give in to the system” strategy to avoid the deliberate conditioning to force everyone into the panopticon I'm not sure what I'm giving up by ceding fingerprints and a picture to a government agency that almost certainly already has both.
  - hopelite 1y ago
    It’s not the simple act of just “giving them what they likely already have” once that house booked about 20 years ago. And yes, I can sue you the government had way more on me, but I seem to at least realize that that stallion is long gone. You seem to represent a rather is phenomenon in society though. For a lack of a better term at the moment; the shift or maybe even deliberate psychological manipulation of society, civilization, culture towards not only a passive, depressive state, but also a kind of self-harming, self-destructive, nihilistic state of “what does it even matter anymore” and “I probably deserve the abuse of my abusers” type of mentality. A variation of that is “I’m not sure what I’m giving up by ceding…” an odd fatalism.
hitarpetar 1y ago
you meant to write unequal treatment for the wealthy right?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > you meant to write unequal treatment for the wealthy right? Yes. I'm not endorsing the system. Just stating why folks on HN might be having wildly different experiences. Broadly speaking, if you have to interact with border control or airport security, you're going to have a bad time. The stupid, lazy and mean are overrepresented in their ranks. You may have a slightly-worse time with particularly physical affects. But I've absolutely watched my British-accented white friend from Atlanta get singled out every time for fuckery by their TSA. If, on the other hand, you get the unequal wealth treatment, you won't see a disparity. Because there isn't one. You're rarely interacting with a human being.

ceejayoz 1y ago

Both things can be true; that it's on average a shitty experience, and that it's on average an even shittier experience for folks of certain demographics.

dijit 1y ago
I genuinely can't understand how it can be shittier. Unless they're taking liberties with your wife and children or something.
- ceejayoz 1y ago
  You can't imagine a shittier outcome for bringing a banned weapon into an airport than "I told the TSA agent about it and he was kind regarding it, offering condolences"?
  - dijit 1y ago
    That was my one positive interaction, and yes it could have gone a lot worse, as mentioned. 1/60 is not exactly batting a thousand. Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse. Rude, tense, confusing, authoritarian with arbitrary detainment - with no acknowledgement of time or empathy for your own obligations (to board the plane for example); and heaven help you if you express your frustration.
    - ceejayoz 1y ago
      > Every other interaction, I can't imagine being worse. Rude, tense, confusing and authoritarian; and heaven help you if you express your frustration. https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/immigration/shocked-and-humiliated-lawsuits-accuse-customs-border-officers-of-invasive-searches-of-minors-women/ https://publicintegrity.org/inequality-poverty-opportunity/i... "Yet in these suits, innocent women — including minor girls — who were not found with any contraband say CBP officers subjected them to harsh interrogation that led to indignities that included unreasonable strip searches while menstruating to prohibited genital probing. Some women were also handcuffed and transported to hospitals where, against their will, they underwent pelvic exams, X-rays and in one case, drugging via IV, according to suits. Invasive medical procedures require a detainee’s consent or a warrant. In two cases, women were billed for procedures."