6 ms·
Cheap DIY solar fence design
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y agoA wider shot of the installation would help-the available pictures make it appear as if the panels are constantly going to be shaded. $1100 for mounting $1000 worth of panels does not seem terrible for something that anyone proficient with a hammer could accomplish.
- reedlaw 1y agoI found this: https://joeyh.name/blog/pics/solar_fence_with_powerracks.jpg https://joeyh.name/blog/pics/solar_fence_with_powerracks.jpg
- DaveZale 1y agowhat are the current tariffs on solar panels? I've wanted to install home solar for years now. It's difficult in my area. At first, the salespeople would ghost me after learning I didn't want or need financing. Then they lied about waived connection fees for use of a battery to sell power back to the utility during evening peak hours. Then the Federal incentives vanished. Now... the tariffs. So our approach is to remain in the bottom 2% of electicity consumption for our area. Stability in government is something we don't appreciate until it's gone.
- sagarm 1y agoSignatureSolar has panels for $0.25/w. The tariffs are a nothing burger. If you're paying someone else to do it, the panels will likely be <10% of the cost.
- kragen 1y agoThat's still 150% higher than the wholesale price overseas, and maybe if paying someone to install an appliance costs 9× more than the appliance does, you should think about doing it yourself.
- sagarm 1y agoOh yeah, DIY is the way to go. But even for a DIY project the other stuff you need -- inverters, batteries, optimizers, mounts, wiring, transfer switch -- will end up being the majority.
- kragen 1y agoMaybe you should figure out how to do without some of it. You don't need MPPT optimization if buying more panels is cheaper. You don't need much battery if you run the washer in the daytime and use thermal storage to heat or cool the house at night. You don't need a transfer switch if you don't connect the solar to the grid outlets. You don't need inverters if you run things on 48V DC, which also greatly reduces the safety risks of wiring problems. I think Joey's house has DC appliances, though I don't remember.
- MichaelNolan 1y agoWhat is the safety benefit of 48v? I am not an electrician, but I just finished diy/installing a 48v system, and when I was doing some research I read the opposite. 48v is *cheaper* since you don’t need as thick wires, but *more dangerous* since it has a higher chance of arc faults and the voltage is sufficiently high that it can cross the skin barrier and kill you. Though all three are pretty safe as long as you buy the appropriate equipment, and take reasonable precautions when installing it.
- kragen 1y agoDC has a higher danger of arc faults than AC, and 48V is enough to sustain a short arc. But 48Vdc has less danger of either shock or arc faults than 120Vdc, and DC has a lower risk of shock than AC, because it still usually can't drive enough current through your skin to kill you. But you are correct that people can and do die from 48Vdc shocks, for example when their welding gloves are soaked with sweat or they're immersed in water. You need thicker wires with 48V than with 120V or especially 240V, and the higher currents required at 48V can create more risk of fire from overheating conductors, for example in a wire that's too thin or a spring contact in an outlet that's worn out. Perhaps you are implicitly comparing 48Vdc to 24Vdc, 12Vdc, or 6Vdc, rather than the 240Vac or 120Vac I was comparing it to. Those lower voltages do indeed need even thicker wires and pose even less risk of shock or arc faults than 48Vdc. I think 24V is the minimum to maintain an arc in air at atmospheric pressure, and it's really hard to get one started using a 24V supply; you need a high-frequency start circuit or a substantial amount of inductance in series. 48V is the maximum usually considered safe enough to not require compliance with any kind of electrical code; an expert electrician from North America once told me that it's in a category known to electricians as "bullshit wiring".
- epistasis 1y agoWow, that's fantastic pricing. Globally, the average is $0.089/W, in the US, $0.27/W: https://bsky.app/profile/solarchase.bsky.social/post/3m3md7koglk2v https://bsky.app/profile/solarchase.bsky.social/post/3m3md7k...
- buckle8017 1y agoThis lady makes the error of taking about California as having a grid. For contracting purposes it does. For grid stability purposes it does not.
- epistasis 1y agoYour pedantry is incorrect, and does not reflect usage of experts.
- buckle8017 1y agoYou're wrong and should feel bad for down voting me.
- epistasis 1y agoI didn't downvote you, and wouldn't if I could! I can't downvote my direct replies. As for being "wrong," you're insisting that there's a narrow definition of a term when in general practice it is not used that way, and where the current usage causes zero confusion. You may be trying to change usage, but telling people "you're wrong" when they are not is not a convincing way. Showing that the existing usage of terms causes confusion might me more convincing, but it's hard.
- rjdj377dhabsn 1y agoThat's still a lot higher than what I paid in SE Asia 2 years ago. I got new 550w panels delivered for $65 each. And of course installation is incredibly cheap here. $50 total in labor for 10 panels on a quite high roof. I don't remember the costs of the mounting hardware, but it was reasonable as well.
- nine_k 1y agoUse second-hand panels, hire a contractor to install them, and another contractor to then install and connect batteries and an inverter. Ignore the possibility to sell energy back to the grid, charge your batteries instead. Now, you would have built not a cutting-edge system, but a relatively inexpensive one, with a minimum of red tape and financing shenanigans. (Edited: typos.)
- daemonologist 1y agoIt is very complicated, but for the countries which are major producers, for most companies, it's between 64% and 430%. China (~85% of production) is 140%. https://www.infolink-group.com/energy-article/solar-topic-itensifying-us-tariff-pressure-reshapes-global-supply-chains https://www.infolink-group.com/energy-article/solar-topic-it... But even putting aside the tariffs, I'm in the same boat as you - residential/consumer solar in the US is a disaster - everything goes through shady installation companies, the labor and permitting costs are enormous, it's nearly impossible to buy panels yourself at the market rate.
- ericd 1y agoWhat would you call "the market rate"? You can get pallets of panels right now for ~$0.30/watt at eg Signature Solar (no affiliation, just where I got ours). That might be more than what's available globally, but it's also not a very significant driver of the system cost at that level (our inverter cost more, the ground mounts cost more, the the batteries cost more, the electrician final hookup work cost more, etc).
- kragen 1y agoIt's six times what's available globally for "low cost" panels, and three times the "mainstream" price, which is driving the other system components you mention to lower prices. After all, you can power appliances from solar panels without any of those other things.
- ericd 1y agoWithout an inverter/wiring/mounts? Do you mean RV-style DC appliances? Unfortunately, I think Americans are much too heavily invested in current infrastructure to consider going all-in on those…
- kragen 1y agoYes. Or cellphones, laptops, cordless drills, LED lights, etc., which all run on low-voltage DC.
- blaufast 1y agoI DIYd this with permits and interconnect in the SF Bay Area. I’ve had no power bill for years now, and I have two hot tubs. Panels and enphase on Craigslist are so cheap you don’t have to worry about it. Max out what you’re allowed with your main electrical panel size and you’ll never regret it. Don’t even consider doing less than the maximum. You will never meet anybody who believes they added enough solar after a year of ownership
- just-the-wrk 1y agoThis is amazing, thank you. I love the use of Ironridge rails for mounting
- gnabgib 1y agoFeatured in his: Offgrid Electric Car (29 points, 6 months ago, 9 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43764598 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43764598 Aiming at December https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42412256 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42412256
- nerdralph 1y agoI used 605W LONGi TOPCon panels for my vertical PV experiment. If they are too tall, 440-450W JA or Jinko TOPCon panels are 176cm. Ditching the rails and bolting to the panel mounting holes with galvanized angle is a lot cheaper.
- RatchetWerks 1y agoI’ve been considering this for a while. I have a fence that is south facing, with no major obstructions. I want solar but I don’t want the liability of a roof install with leaks and servicing. I’ve landed either on a solar pergola or a solar fence . Both concepts seem like a no brainer. I like the solar fence since it allows you to cleverly avoid setback requirements that normal structures have. I’m glad people like Joey are doing projects like this.
- woodpanel 1y ago> the liability of a roof install with leaks and servicing Also expect a dove colony to enjoy the new comfort. All your neighbors will thank you for their homes turning into guano rocks, a sight once reserved to adventurous travelers. Their nests, which will quickly accumulate under your roof's panels, offer not one but two existential threats for your home: They can catch fire when too dry, but also act as a water barrier, pushing the water into your roof.
- GordonS 1y agoSome chicken wire can solve this problem.
- alias_neo 1y agoYou're being downvoted for perhaps missing that there is a solution, bird-mesh or skirts, but your point is absolutely accurate. We were not quoted for the mesh in our install and the day the panels were fitted we had a bird build a nest on another part of the roof, some quick research suggested that people in the area _highly_ recommend getting it, so we had it added at an absolutely ridiculous markup that added a whole year to our ROI but it needed to be done.
- woodpanel 1y agoWell it's not a surprise that green energy fanatics act fanatic, is it? Obviously there is a solution, but I'd say the vast majority of either fanatics or normies tinkering with the idea of installing a solar roof know anything about those severe problems. I've installed one recently. I've asked every prospective contractor for the job beforehand about whether I should get some mesh around it. All said they never heard of such a problem. And if virtually all the people that installed all these roofs in your area tell the same story, what do you do? Half a year later the whole block turned into Guano dump and once the plague is there, mesh around the panels won't do – you need to install spikes as well, because as long as not every solar roof in your vicinity is "meshed" these colonies are still going to use your roof for their "business" as well. EDIT: Since you've mentioned ROI, the premium for installing the panels with the mesh directly would have been around 500€, having to do it separately (plus the additional spikes) cost 2500€
- bawolff 1y ago> The cost of mounting solar panels nowadays is often higher than the cost of the panels. This fact always surprises me. What goes into a mount that makes it so expensive? Its essentially just a piece of metal, right? The article goes into the parts for their custom fence project, but for the more typical case, why can't the metal mounts just be mass produced cheaply?
- woodpanel 1y ago> What goes into a mount that makes it so expensive? Human Labor, the most neglected factor when discussing rising infrastructure costs.
- tguvot 1y agoWork
- xixixao 1y agoThe cost of barista preparing a coffee is often higher than the cost of beans and milk. And so on :)
- jandrese 1y agoI wonder if you couldn't do something incredibly simple like get some pressure treated 4x4 posts and use a router to make shallow slots for the panels to sit in. Plant them the right width and run a 2x4 along the bottom to let the panel rest on it. What is it about solar panels that makes everyone want to use these really expensive mounting solutions? Is it just because they're trying to engineer a full 30 year lifespan right from the start? You will still need the conduit for the wire of course, at least up to the inverter. That will add up pretty quickly if your mounts are spread out.
- npodbielski 1y agoCan someone explain to me what is the point of this? The whole point of mounting solar panels should be to maximize area that is facing the sun. Look at the 3rd picture, some are facing the camera, some are slightly tilted to the right. This way you effectively loosing some of the money you spend for the panels because they are not placed optimally. If you would live on the equator optimal placing is laying panels on the ground. The closer you are to the pole you should lift panel up more on the north side. Standing panels would make sense from theoretical point of view on the pole, but then you have freezing temperatures and snow covering the panels which makes them useless. Which again brings me to the question: why? Why would anybody do that?
- cenamus 1y agoVertical panels have higher efficiency due to lower panel temperatures. And usually you have enough power during midday but not in the mornings and evenings, where these would produce the most power, sort of flattening the power curve. Also panels are really cheap, like 70€ per piece
- jwr 1y agoYes, there are good reasons for mounting panels vertically (other than just needing fence instead of a roof, obviously). A 5-minute session with a search engine or an LLM will explain those.
- Timshel 1y ago> but then you have freezing temperatures and snow covering the panels which makes them useless. When vertical not much of an issue and the reflection from the snow appears to work well with bifacial.
- SideburnsOfDoom 1y ago> The whole point of mounting solar panels should be to maximize area that is facing the sun. This is still conventional wisdom, yes. It assumes that you need to maximise utilisation of solar panels, and act as if they are rare and expensive. But they are now neither rare nor expensive any more. Also, as the other comment pointed out, if you "maximize area that is facing the sun", you get most generation at mid-day. Adding in some generation that is most active in early and late day balances that out, as most power is used then. And you can just throw more panels at the problem. It's not a constraint any more.
- voidUpdate 1y agoIs this an actual boundary fence or just some free-standing vertical solar panels? Is there any reason they should be vertical instead of facing the sun? Where I live, it would be more efficient for them to be at a roughly 40 degree angle (I think)
- jpt1 1y agoYou get a different generation curve (more energy in mornings and evenings) with vertical bi-facial panels. Though this person is in a woody area which might not see that benefit.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- masklinn 1y agoThat’s specifically for e/w bifacials, you don’t get that with N/S panels.
- ZeroGravitas 1y agoNorth/south bifacial shifts the generation seasonally, trading much less in summer for a bit more in winter when the sun is low.
- masklinn 1y agoIndeed.
- ben_w 1y ago> Is there any reason they should be vertical instead of facing the sun? Takes up a smaller footprint of land, and PV panels themselves are now so cheap and last so long that it borderline makes sense as a fencing material even if you don't connect them to an inverter and power and anything with them.
- bradfa 1y ago
- Havoc 1y agoLove the concept but not sure about a fence with giant gaps underneath it
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- woodpanel 1y agoI'm planning to do the same (without creating too much of an eyesore for me and my neighbors). So great to see him documenting this. One thing his construction will run into though is his wooden pillars rotting quickly. Always keep a healthy distance between wood or it will be soaked quickly.
- kragen 1y agoHe says they're "treated", which I think means "impregnated with alkaline copper quaternary or similar poisons". So I think it might survive a good while even if it stays wet after it rains.
- prawn 1y agoI'd say this is why they have the treated posts resting on gravel with concrete filling the remainder. This would stop water pooling, and if the concrete was mounded a little bit, keep more water away from the posts.
- jagermo 1y agoI think that is one of the facts that I like about solar. It plays towards tinkers and builders unlike any other power source, can be surprisingly flexible and seems to scale pretty well. Also, besides knowledge about electricity, you don't really need and special knowledge or take additional precautions (besides the usual, safety third and all).
- ge96 1y agoMay have to deal with paid permits depending on where you are Watched Fisherman's Life on YT (in California) recently build out some panels had to pay for inspection granted different design than a fence
- ghtbircshotbe 1y agoSome questions: 1. The article doesn't say how much power he actually generates from the panels. 2. It would be nice if more were said about the need for bracing. How high can the fence be without requiring bracing? 3. If you want to enclose a space, the which direction do the panels face? Outwards? As close to south as possible? You may end up with a bunch of electrical stuff facing away from your house. I think it's just a matter of time before your local overbearing town/hoa decides this is too ugly.
- masklinn 1y agoFor (3) you should get bifacials with the A side facing south if your fence is N/S, if E/W the recommendation is to alternate 50/50.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- duckmysick 1y agoBased on the photos it's a fence in a fairly private location. I assume it's not viable if the solar fence is right next to a street or a sidewalk, because of potential vandalism and obstructions from trees or street lights.
- owenthejumper 1y agoI've been wanting to do THIS for a long time. How was permitting process? That scares me the most
- CNNCultists 1y ago[flagged]
- turtlebits 1y agoI'm sorry, but that's not a fence, it's just a vertically mounted array. Would OP really have built a regular fence there? It'd probably be less labor and material intensive to just build a single structure holding the entire array using much longer rails instead of setting posts and rails every 6-7 feet. To keep costs lower you could also go with a string inverter instead of the ~$1500 you'd need for microinverters. Pricing conveniently doesn't include the panels, so you just have a set of posts and some horizontal racking.
- whiw 1y agoI'd be concerned about clay heave (where clay shrinks/expands depending on moisture content, which likely varies over the year). If the posts at each end of a panel move out of plane there will be a twisting moment on the panel, and glass doesn't like being bent.
- euroderf 1y agoAbout snow. He does not mention getting any, but his panels are high enough above the ground, and above a slope, that wind should clear snow away from under the panels and prevent it piling up. I think. Does anyone have experience with designing a similar setup but for a locale with snow accumulating on the ground ?