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The step down from 32GB to 24GB of unified memory is interesting. Theories? Perhaps they decided M4 allowed too much memory in the standard chip and they want t

The step down from 32GB to 24GB of unified memory is interesting. Theories? Perhaps they decided M4 allowed too much memory in the standard chip and they want to create a larger differential with Pro/Max chips? Update: I am thinking the 24GB for M5 is a typo. I see on Apple's site the 14 inch MBP can be configured optionally with 32GB of RAM.

makeramen 1y ago
That seems like a typo or incorrect info, the M5 MBP definitely can be configured up to 32 GB, and the Apple page mentions 32 GB explicitly as well.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
christkv 1y ago
the still have an option for 32GB
eftychis 1y ago
I had the same question, but I can only speculate at the moment. The cynical part of me thinks in a similar line: create an artificial differentiation and push people to upgrade. If anyone has any real clues that they can share pseudonymously, that would be great. Not sure which department drove that change.
- brailsafe 1y ago
  They definitely do that. You could get 64gb ram without going up to the top spec of the Max tier of CPU in the M1 and M2 generations, but with the M4 Pro you can only do 24 or 48gb, while on the lower spec M4 Max you can only do 36gb and nothing else, only the absolute best CPU can do 64, therefore if you were otherwise going to get the 48gb m4 pro, you'd have to spend another ~$1200 USD to get another 16gb of ram if all you cared about was ram. There may be a technical explanation for it, but incentives are incentives.
  - matt-p 1y ago
    you can get 64GB on the mini with M4-Pro so that lays credence to no technical reason, but at the same time if the business reason was strong, why allow it on the mini but not in a macbook? I think this is equally likely to be due to reducing SKUs or something. E.g they found that most people buying 64GB ram do also buy the upgraded processor.
    - brailsafe 1y ago
      Ya, what you're talking about did spread a bit on the various forums when it became clear they were aggressively segmenting that market. > E.g they found that most people buying 64GB ram do also buy the upgraded processor. It seems like the way they've divided them, there's at least one more SKU than there would otherwise be, because of that base M4 Max with only 36gb of ram (can't get it with 24,48,64,96), so if you want the extra few cores, you now have to go to the max Max to get any more ram. It took me a while to commit to the purchase, because I felt like an idiot implicitly telling them I'm okay with that bs pricing ladder, but at least I didn't over extend and go for the Max. They already charge comically too much for ram and storage.
surcap526 1y ago
Apple is running planned obsolescence scam.
- School-Cotton 1y ago
  M1 MBPs are still great laptops. In fact there are even Intel models from 2019 that are still officially supported. Apple is pretty much the last company it makes sense to accuse of planning obsolescence.
  - mschuster91 1y ago
    Yup, but only on the hardware side. On the software side, you are entirely at their mercy - unlike Windows which goes to utterly ridiculous length to keep software dating back to the Windows 95 era running on top notch Windows 11 systems, Mac developers are all too used of having to constantly keep up with whatever crap Apple has changed and moved around this time.
    - tgma 1y ago
      Windows, huh? Pulled shenanigans wrt TPM requirements for Windows 10 and 11. Actively trying to make sure people login to a Microsoft Account and making it hard to use Local Accounts. > Mac developers are all too used of having to constantly keep up with whatever crap Apple has changed and moved around this time. Mmm... Win16 API Win32 API (including variants like GoodLuckSystemCallExExEx2W(...)) MFC ATL .NET WinForms .NET Avalon/WPF Silverlight MAUI ...
      - mschuster91 1y ago
        For what it's worth I'm running Mac mostly, outside of ham radio stuff because there's just so much stuff that only is available on Windows. The thing with all the mentioned APIs is that, excluding 16 bit stuff (that got yeeted in Win7 x64, but if you did need it you could run W7 x32), you can still run software using them without too much of a hassle and you most probably can compile it if you need to fix a bug. Good luck trying to get a Mac game from the 90s running on any Mac natively without an emulator/VM in contrast.
candeira 1y ago
I could be wrong about this but, if I had a guess, I'd say the 24GB M5 chips/systems exist due to binning. Apple is designing and manufacturing a chip/chipset/system with 32GB with integrated memory. During QA, parts that have one non-conformant 8GB internal module out of the four are reused in a cheaper (but still functional) 24GB product line rather than thrown away. Market segmentation also has its hand in how the final products are priced and sold, but my strong guess is that, if Apple could produce 32GB systems with perfect yield, they would, and the 24GB system would not exist.
- angoragoats 1y ago
  The memory is not on-die, it’s separate (completely standard) memory chips, either DDR4 or DDR5 depending on which M-series CPU you’re looking at. So binning doesn’t really apply.
  - candeira 1y ago
    Seems like there's a misunderstanding on my part here. <reads more> Ah, the memory is integrated in the same package (the "chip" that gets soldered onto the motherboard) as the integrated CPU/GPU, and I had understood that correctly. However, I had incorrectly surmised that it was built into the same silicon die. Thanks for the correction! Lesson: TIL about the difference between System-In-a-Package (SIP) and System-On-a-Chip, and how I had misunderstood the Apple Silicon M series processors to be SoCs when they're SiPs.
    - angoragoats 1y ago
      No worries! It’s made more difficult to understand by 1) Apple’s marketing, which does a great job of tricking people into thinking that the memory is actually integrated into the die without actually saying so, and 2) the fast-and-loose use of the SoC and SiP terms, which are often used interchangeably, including by Apple in official marketing materials [1]. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/apple-introduces-m2-ultra/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/apple-introduces-m2-u...

makeramen 1y ago

That seems like a typo or incorrect info, the M5 MBP definitely can be configured up to 32 GB, and the Apple page mentions 32 GB explicitly as well.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

christkv 1y ago

the still have an option for 32GB

eftychis 1y ago

I had the same question, but I can only speculate at the moment. The cynical part of me thinks in a similar line: create an artificial differentiation and push people to upgrade. If anyone has any real clues that they can share pseudonymously, that would be great. Not sure which department drove that change.

brailsafe 1y ago
They definitely do that. You could get 64gb ram without going up to the top spec of the Max tier of CPU in the M1 and M2 generations, but with the M4 Pro you can only do 24 or 48gb, while on the lower spec M4 Max you can only do 36gb and nothing else, only the absolute best CPU can do 64, therefore if you were otherwise going to get the 48gb m4 pro, you'd have to spend another ~$1200 USD to get another 16gb of ram if all you cared about was ram. There may be a technical explanation for it, but incentives are incentives.
- matt-p 1y ago
  you can get 64GB on the mini with M4-Pro so that lays credence to no technical reason, but at the same time if the business reason was strong, why allow it on the mini but not in a macbook? I think this is equally likely to be due to reducing SKUs or something. E.g they found that most people buying 64GB ram do also buy the upgraded processor.
  - brailsafe 1y ago
    Ya, what you're talking about did spread a bit on the various forums when it became clear they were aggressively segmenting that market. > E.g they found that most people buying 64GB ram do also buy the upgraded processor. It seems like the way they've divided them, there's at least one more SKU than there would otherwise be, because of that base M4 Max with only 36gb of ram (can't get it with 24,48,64,96), so if you want the extra few cores, you now have to go to the max Max to get any more ram. It took me a while to commit to the purchase, because I felt like an idiot implicitly telling them I'm okay with that bs pricing ladder, but at least I didn't over extend and go for the Max. They already charge comically too much for ram and storage.

surcap526 1y ago

Apple is running planned obsolescence scam.

School-Cotton 1y ago
M1 MBPs are still great laptops. In fact there are even Intel models from 2019 that are still officially supported. Apple is pretty much the last company it makes sense to accuse of planning obsolescence.
- mschuster91 1y ago
  Yup, but only on the hardware side. On the software side, you are entirely at their mercy - unlike Windows which goes to utterly ridiculous length to keep software dating back to the Windows 95 era running on top notch Windows 11 systems, Mac developers are all too used of having to constantly keep up with whatever crap Apple has changed and moved around this time.
  - tgma 1y ago
    Windows, huh? Pulled shenanigans wrt TPM requirements for Windows 10 and 11. Actively trying to make sure people login to a Microsoft Account and making it hard to use Local Accounts. > Mac developers are all too used of having to constantly keep up with whatever crap Apple has changed and moved around this time. Mmm... Win16 API Win32 API (including variants like GoodLuckSystemCallExExEx2W(...)) MFC ATL .NET WinForms .NET Avalon/WPF Silverlight MAUI ...
    - mschuster91 1y ago
      For what it's worth I'm running Mac mostly, outside of ham radio stuff because there's just so much stuff that only is available on Windows. The thing with all the mentioned APIs is that, excluding 16 bit stuff (that got yeeted in Win7 x64, but if you did need it you could run W7 x32), you can still run software using them without too much of a hassle and you most probably can compile it if you need to fix a bug. Good luck trying to get a Mac game from the 90s running on any Mac natively without an emulator/VM in contrast.

candeira 1y ago

I could be wrong about this but, if I had a guess, I'd say the 24GB M5 chips/systems exist due to binning. Apple is designing and manufacturing a chip/chipset/system with 32GB with integrated memory. During QA, parts that have one non-conformant 8GB internal module out of the four are reused in a cheaper (but still functional) 24GB product line rather than thrown away. Market segmentation also has its hand in how the final products are priced and sold, but my strong guess is that, if Apple could produce 32GB systems with perfect yield, they would, and the 24GB system would not exist.

angoragoats 1y ago
The memory is not on-die, it’s separate (completely standard) memory chips, either DDR4 or DDR5 depending on which M-series CPU you’re looking at. So binning doesn’t really apply.
- candeira 1y ago
  Seems like there's a misunderstanding on my part here. <reads more> Ah, the memory is integrated in the same package (the "chip" that gets soldered onto the motherboard) as the integrated CPU/GPU, and I had understood that correctly. However, I had incorrectly surmised that it was built into the same silicon die. Thanks for the correction! Lesson: TIL about the difference between System-In-a-Package (SIP) and System-On-a-Chip, and how I had misunderstood the Apple Silicon M series processors to be SoCs when they're SiPs.
  - angoragoats 1y ago
    No worries! It’s made more difficult to understand by 1) Apple’s marketing, which does a great job of tricking people into thinking that the memory is actually integrated into the die without actually saying so, and 2) the fast-and-loose use of the SoC and SiP terms, which are often used interchangeably, including by Apple in official marketing materials [1]. [1] https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/apple-introduces-m2-ultra/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2023/06/apple-introduces-m2-u...