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You know IMHO Apple doesn't have any 'Pro' machines. A 'Pro' machine isn't about hardware (although it helps), it comes mainly from the software. MacOS doesn't

You know IMHO Apple doesn't have any 'Pro' machines. A 'Pro' machine isn't about hardware (although it helps), it comes mainly from the software. MacOS doesn't have enough 'openness' to it. There's no debug information, lack of tools etc. To this day I can still daily drive a XP or 98/2000 machine( if they supported the modern web) because all the essentials are still intact. You can look around system files, you customize them edit them. I could modify game files to change their behaviour. I could modify windows registry in tons of ways to customize my experience, experiment lot of things. As a 'Pro' user my first expectation is options, options in everything I do , which MacOS lacks severely. All the random hardware that we see launching from time to time have drivers for windows but not for Mac. Even linux has tons of terminal tools and customisation. MacOS is like a glorified phone OS. It's weirdly locked down at certain places that drive you crazy. Tons of things do not have context menus(windows is filled with it). Window management sucks, there's no device manager! Not even cli tools! (Or maybe I'm not aware?) Why can't I simpy cut and paste? There's no API/way to control system elements via scripting, windows and linux are filled to the brim with these! Even though the UI is good looking I just cannot switch to an Apple device (both Mac and iPhone) for these reasons. I bought an iPad pro and I'm regretting. There's no termux equivalent in iPadOS/iOS , there are some terminal tools but they can't use the full processing power, they can't multi thread. They can't run in background, it's just ridiculous. The iPad Pro is just a glorious iPhone. Hardware doesn't make a device 'Pro' software does. Video editing isn't a 'Pro' workflow in the sense that it can be done in any machine that has sufficient oomph. An iPad Pro from 5 years ago will be slower than an iPad Air of today, does that make the air a 'Pro' device? No!

astrange 1y ago
> As a 'Pro' user my first expectation is options, options in everything I do , which MacOS lacks severely. It's a bad idea to add an option entirely for the purpose of making the product not work anymore. https://limi.net/checkboxes https://limi.net/checkboxes > Window management sucks I'm always mystified reading these kinds of posts on HN because it literally always starts out as "macOS is an OS for babies" and turns out to mean "macOS doesn't have a tiling window manager". Like, cmon man, who cares. > there's no device manager! Not even cli tools! `ioreg -l` or `system_profiler`. Why does this matter? > There's no API/way to control system elements via scripting https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/index.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ac... https://developer.apple.com/documentation/XCUIAutomation https://developer.apple.com/documentation/XCUIAutomation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript https://support.apple.com/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios
- Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
  > > Window management sucks > I'm always mystified reading these kinds of posts on HN because it literally always starts out as "macOS is an OS for babies" and turns out to mean "macOS doesn't have a tiling window manager". Like, cmon man, who cares. For me, not so much the window management, but task management. I very strongly believe that the task bar (I guess the Dock bar in MacOS) should have a separate item for each open window of an app. If I have 3 Firefox windows open, that should be 3 entries in the task/dock bar so I can switch between them in a single click. I can do this in Windows, can't do it in MacOS. One of the problems I have with MacOS is that it's not obvious how to start a second instance of an app. Sure, some apps will have a "New Window" option. But what about apps that don't, like Burp Suite? If I bring up the launcher, then click Burp Suite when one is already loaded, it just shows me the existing one.
  - astrange 1y ago
    You can't start a second instance of an app. Or rather you can (run the app binary from the Terminal) but apps are not required to expect you to do this, and it would probably lead to data corruption from them writing to shared files. A weakness of this is you can duplicate apps and launch the duplicate, even though they have the same bundle ID, so they might still fight over things.
  - NetMageSCW 1y ago
    No your problem is you brought over your expectations from non-macOS systems and the. expected the Mac to be similar. That isn’t how it works. Do you complain that Windows doesn’t have a bash or that Linux doesn’t support ACLs easily?
    - astrange 1y ago
      > Do you complain that Windows doesn’t have a bash or that Linux doesn’t support ACLs easily? Don't both of those exist now? The reason the Mac is more "app-centric" is Conway's law; developers own apps so it's thought if you tried breaking apart an app it would fail, since previous "document-centric" efforts like OpenDoc failed.
NetMageSCW 1y ago
All of that is exactly the opposite of what a Pro machine should be. Pros want hardware that works without fiddling to get their real job done. They know that configuring the OS or adjusting the GUI or discussing File Explorer differences is just a waste of time that has nothing to do with their job.
- dd_xplore 1y ago
  Doesn't the hardware work in Air series? Doesn't the hardware work in windows machines ? Hardware works almost everywhere!

astrange 1y ago

> As a 'Pro' user my first expectation is options, options in everything I do , which MacOS lacks severely. It's a bad idea to add an option entirely for the purpose of making the product not work anymore. https://limi.net/checkboxes https://limi.net/checkboxes > Window management sucks I'm always mystified reading these kinds of posts on HN because it literally always starts out as "macOS is an OS for babies" and turns out to mean "macOS doesn't have a tiling window manager". Like, cmon man, who cares. > there's no device manager! Not even cli tools! `ioreg -l` or `system_profiler`. Why does this matter? > There's no API/way to control system elements via scripting https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Accessibility/Conceptual/AccessibilityMacOSX/index.html https://developer.apple.com/library/archive/documentation/Ac... https://developer.apple.com/documentation/XCUIAutomation https://developer.apple.com/documentation/XCUIAutomation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AppleScript https://support.apple.com/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios https://support.apple.com/guide/shortcuts/welcome/ios

Sohcahtoa82 1y ago
> > Window management sucks > I'm always mystified reading these kinds of posts on HN because it literally always starts out as "macOS is an OS for babies" and turns out to mean "macOS doesn't have a tiling window manager". Like, cmon man, who cares. For me, not so much the window management, but task management. I very strongly believe that the task bar (I guess the Dock bar in MacOS) should have a separate item for each open window of an app. If I have 3 Firefox windows open, that should be 3 entries in the task/dock bar so I can switch between them in a single click. I can do this in Windows, can't do it in MacOS. One of the problems I have with MacOS is that it's not obvious how to start a second instance of an app. Sure, some apps will have a "New Window" option. But what about apps that don't, like Burp Suite? If I bring up the launcher, then click Burp Suite when one is already loaded, it just shows me the existing one.
- astrange 1y ago
  You can't start a second instance of an app. Or rather you can (run the app binary from the Terminal) but apps are not required to expect you to do this, and it would probably lead to data corruption from them writing to shared files. A weakness of this is you can duplicate apps and launch the duplicate, even though they have the same bundle ID, so they might still fight over things.
- NetMageSCW 1y ago
  No your problem is you brought over your expectations from non-macOS systems and the. expected the Mac to be similar. That isn’t how it works. Do you complain that Windows doesn’t have a bash or that Linux doesn’t support ACLs easily?
  - astrange 1y ago
    > Do you complain that Windows doesn’t have a bash or that Linux doesn’t support ACLs easily? Don't both of those exist now? The reason the Mac is more "app-centric" is Conway's law; developers own apps so it's thought if you tried breaking apart an app it would fail, since previous "document-centric" efforts like OpenDoc failed.

NetMageSCW 1y ago

All of that is exactly the opposite of what a Pro machine should be. Pros want hardware that works without fiddling to get their real job done. They know that configuring the OS or adjusting the GUI or discussing File Explorer differences is just a waste of time that has nothing to do with their job.

dd_xplore 1y ago
Doesn't the hardware work in Air series? Doesn't the hardware work in windows machines ? Hardware works almost everywhere!