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> humans physically exist so our brains must be possible to build within the existing laws of physics This is an unscientific position to take. We have no idea

by andy99 1y ago

> humans physically exist so our brains must be possible to build within the existing laws of physics This is an unscientific position to take. We have no idea how our brains work, or how life, consciousness, and intelligence work. It could very well be that’s because our model of the world doesn’t account for these things and they are not in fact possible based on what we know. In fact I think this is likely. So it really could be that AI is not possible, for example on a Turing machine or our approximation of them. This is at least as likely as it being possible. At some point we’ll hopefully refine our theories to have a better understanding, for now we have no idea and I think it’s useful to acknowledge this.

zeroonetwothree 1y ago
Turing machines have been universal as far as we have found. So while I acknowledge it’s possible, I would definitely not say it’s more likely that brains cannot be simulated by TMs. I would personally weight this as under 10%. Of course it doesn’t speak to how challenging it will be to actually do that. And I don’t believe that LLMs are sufficient to reach AGI.
bee_rider 1y ago
I think my main mistake, which I agree is a legitimate mistake, was to write “the existing laws of physics.” It is definitely possible that our current understanding of the laws of physics is insufficient to build a brain. Of course the actual underlying laws of the universe that we’re trying (unsuccessfully so far, it is a never ending process) to describe admit the existence of brains. But that is not what I said. Sorry for the error.
gpderetta 1y ago
>> humans physically exist so our brains must be possible to build within the existing laws of physics > This is an unscientific position to take The universe being constrained observable and understandable, natural laws is pretty much a fundamental axiom of the scientific method.

by andy99 1y ago

zeroonetwothree 1y ago

Turing machines have been universal as far as we have found. So while I acknowledge it’s possible, I would definitely not say it’s more likely that brains cannot be simulated by TMs. I would personally weight this as under 10%. Of course it doesn’t speak to how challenging it will be to actually do that. And I don’t believe that LLMs are sufficient to reach AGI.

bee_rider 1y ago

I think my main mistake, which I agree is a legitimate mistake, was to write “the existing laws of physics.” It is definitely possible that our current understanding of the laws of physics is insufficient to build a brain. Of course the actual underlying laws of the universe that we’re trying (unsuccessfully so far, it is a never ending process) to describe admit the existence of brains. But that is not what I said. Sorry for the error.

gpderetta 1y ago

>> humans physically exist so our brains must be possible to build within the existing laws of physics > This is an unscientific position to take The universe being constrained observable and understandable, natural laws is pretty much a fundamental axiom of the scientific method.