5 ms·

I bet most people around here would prefer fully supported linux over mac os on their apple silicon.

by KeplerBoy 1y ago

Romario77 1y ago
Linux UI is crap compared to Mac. It's a server or developer box first and a non-technical user second.
- timschmidt 1y ago
  I've felt the opposite for more than a decade. On Linux, it's relatively easy for me to choose a set of applications which all use the same UI toolkit. Additionally, the web browser is often called "Web Browser" in the application launcher, LibreOffice Writer "Word Processor", and so on. In general there is far less branding and advertisement and more focus on function. Linux was the first OS with an "app store" (the package manager). CLI utilities available tend to be the full fat versions with all the useful options, rather than minimalist versions there to satisfy posix compatibility. I could go on. On Linux there is variety and choice, which some folks dislike. But on the Mac I get whatever Apple gives me, and that is often subject to the limitations of corporate attention spans and development budgets.
  - MichealCodes 1y ago
    > limitations of corporate attention spans and development budgets And arbitrary turf wars like their war against web apis/apps causing more friction for devs and end users.
    - ahartmetz 1y ago
      I'm a Linux fan and I like that Apple isn't rubber-stamping the two new web APIs a week that Google comes up with. There are hundreds of them, most of them quite small fortunately.
  - robenkleene 1y ago
    > The web browser is often called "Web Browser" in the application launcher, LibreOffice Writer "Word Processor", and so on. In general there is far less branding and advertisement and more focus on function. Should Emacs and Vim both be called "Editor" then? To me, this is actually a great example of the problems with Linux as a community, that GUI applications seem to just be treated as placeholders (e.g., all word processors are the same?), but then its inconsistent by celebrating the unique differences between editors like Vim and Emacs. Photoshop, Excel, Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro are, in my opinion, crown jewels of what we've accomplished in computing, and by extension some of the greatest creations of the human race, democratizing tasks that in some cases would have cost millions of dollars before (e.g., a recording studio in your home). Relegating these to generic names like "spreadsheet", makes them sound interchangeable, when in my opinion they're each individual creations of great beauty that should wear their names with pride. They've helped improve the trajectory of the human race by facilitating many individuals to perform actions they never would have had the resources to do otherwise.
    - timschmidt 1y ago
      > Should Emacs and Vim both be called "Editor" then? I've used some distributions in which they were. Tooltips and icons were provided to disambiguate. Worked for me. Other distributions name applications explicitly, some place them in a folder together named "Editors". None of the distributions I've used place either in a corporate branded subfolder as is typical on Windows and Mac. Freedom of choice is wonderful.
      - robenkleene 1y ago
        I don't mind corporate branding in general, e.g., if a company makes a great app, why shouldn't they be allow to put their name on it (in an appropriate place)? (And I do think great apps should have more memorable names than "Photo Editor".) (And I'm not sure I get the connection branding has to "Freedom of Choice"?) But, to your point, even I'll admit the fact that the Photoshop is called "Adobe Photoshop 2025" is annoying lol.
        1y ago
- gedy 1y ago
  That was maybe the case 10+ years ago but honestly have been using Fedora with Gnome on my M1, it's pretty polished and nice now.
- markus_zhang 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - jll29 1y ago
    You are right in saying that discoverability has suffered much, by hiding scrollbar and similar changes. Also, you need to move the mouse precisely to a particular spot to re-enable the scrollbars, there is little wiggle room, which may may things harder for handicapped people, older users, or people on the move (e.g. me on a train).
    - markus_zhang 1y ago
      Yeah, e.g. when you have a very short scrollbar and had to guess where it is for more than 5 seconds...I'm kinda grow past that hype, nada, going back to Winux. It is SUCH a pity that they have extraordinary hardware (even with the price point I'd still consider it a bargin, especially for the air/mini)...
  - MichealCodes 1y ago
    Or just the way the menus are on apps. Some app implement their own file/edit/view menus at the top of the app, then some will use the apple version at the top of the OS. If you plug in a TV to use as a monitor and cannot adjust the aspect ratio you're forced to blindly activate these menus as they're clipped from the screen. MacOS folder navigation is a complete pain too, sometimes you see the list of OS folders, sometimes you see only the folder you opened in finder. If the menu is clipped due to the above aspect ratio problem, good luck getting to your home folder... No functionality to easily open a folder in terminal. Lots of basics just counter-intuitive.
    - markus_zhang 1y ago
      Yeah, I found it not easy to go up one level in finder. Actually I had to Google when I tried first time. The way that MacOS wants to conceal information from the users is just insane. I don't know how it is justified. Nevertheless it has a good number of ardent fans.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
pxc 1y ago
Fully supported Linux + proper suspend-to-RAM are the two things I want out of Apple Silicon and may never quite get. Better online low power states are fine, but I want suspend-to-RAM and suspend-then-hibernate. If I close my laptop for a few days, I don't want significant battery drain. If I don't use it for two weeks, I want it to still have life left. And I don't want to write tens of gigabytes to disk every time I close the lid, either!
- zozbot234 1y ago
  What happens if you enable airplane mode before closing the laptop? That should power down all radios so battery drain should be approximately equivalent to S3 standby.
- ValdikSS 1y ago
  Sleep states are not trivial from the security perspective, and they've eliminated the issue by just not allowing it :)
  - astrange 1y ago
    It does hibernate. It just takes a long time to do it because the experience of waking up from it is bad.
vuggamie 1y ago
The best part of MacOS for me is the unix tools. The command line is a real unix command line. And the rest just works. If I need a linux environment I ssh into a VPS.
- epistasis 1y ago
  Or even just containers on the Mac. Unless you need a GPU with specific hardware, or to connect to a cluster, there's ever decreasing need to use remote boxes.
- Daneel_ 1y ago
  Well, kind of.. the commands on Mac OS all just a little bit different and a little bit janky. I still had to relearn all the common commands I use in order to function. I survived 6 months before I went back to a Windows/WSL combo.
  - epistasis 1y ago
    If you want the GNU versions of tools rather than the Mac POSIX versions, then brew can help replace your bin directory with all the GNU niceties. If you're talking about hardware interaction from the command line, that's very different and I don't think there's a fix.
  - MobiusHorizons 1y ago
    Notice the op said Unix not Linux. Gnu made a lot of incompatible changes from the Unix tools it was cloning. Many people in the Linux community prefer the GNU quirks (they are definitely more performance optimized for example). But if you are talking about Unix, the FreeBSD derived userland on a Mac has real Unix lineage.
- ghaff 1y ago
  It doesn't matter for everyone/most. But, yes, having a Unix command line within MacOS is a pretty big win for some of us. Not something I use on a daily basis certainly. And I'd probably set up a Linux box (or ssh into one) if I really needed that routinely. But it's a nice bonus.
geodel 1y ago
"Fully supported by whom" is the issue and important one. Apple won't do it and going by support from "most people around here" Hector Martin et al got crumbs for years, nowhere near to support the development. One can just hand wave "Apple must support Linux and all" but that is not going to get anything done.
7e 1y ago
Linux is a vanity and the illusion is only skin-deep. The overall UX truly sucks.
- KeplerBoy 1y ago
  Which illusion? It's a computer, no more, no less and Linux is a perfectly fine interface to that computer.
- rowanG077 1y ago
  I don't understand. From a pure visual standpoint OSX beats. Linux is not particularly known for looking good or cohesive. But in basically all matters it beats the pants of OSX.
- artisin 1y ago
  The UX only sucks if you're unwilling to put in a minimal amount of time and effort. After that, it has no equal; it is, by definition, the opposite of vanity.
- seattle_spring 1y ago
  Absolutely ironic, coming from someone who claimed that thinking Bazel is overcomplex is "failing an IQ test."

I bet most people around here would prefer fully supported linux over mac os on their apple silicon.

Romario77 1y ago

Linux UI is crap compared to Mac. It's a server or developer box first and a non-technical user second.

timschmidt 1y ago
I've felt the opposite for more than a decade. On Linux, it's relatively easy for me to choose a set of applications which all use the same UI toolkit. Additionally, the web browser is often called "Web Browser" in the application launcher, LibreOffice Writer "Word Processor", and so on. In general there is far less branding and advertisement and more focus on function. Linux was the first OS with an "app store" (the package manager). CLI utilities available tend to be the full fat versions with all the useful options, rather than minimalist versions there to satisfy posix compatibility. I could go on. On Linux there is variety and choice, which some folks dislike. But on the Mac I get whatever Apple gives me, and that is often subject to the limitations of corporate attention spans and development budgets.
- MichealCodes 1y ago
  > limitations of corporate attention spans and development budgets And arbitrary turf wars like their war against web apis/apps causing more friction for devs and end users.
  - ahartmetz 1y ago
    I'm a Linux fan and I like that Apple isn't rubber-stamping the two new web APIs a week that Google comes up with. There are hundreds of them, most of them quite small fortunately.
- robenkleene 1y ago
  > The web browser is often called "Web Browser" in the application launcher, LibreOffice Writer "Word Processor", and so on. In general there is far less branding and advertisement and more focus on function. Should Emacs and Vim both be called "Editor" then? To me, this is actually a great example of the problems with Linux as a community, that GUI applications seem to just be treated as placeholders (e.g., all word processors are the same?), but then its inconsistent by celebrating the unique differences between editors like Vim and Emacs. Photoshop, Excel, Logic Pro, Final Cut Pro are, in my opinion, crown jewels of what we've accomplished in computing, and by extension some of the greatest creations of the human race, democratizing tasks that in some cases would have cost millions of dollars before (e.g., a recording studio in your home). Relegating these to generic names like "spreadsheet", makes them sound interchangeable, when in my opinion they're each individual creations of great beauty that should wear their names with pride. They've helped improve the trajectory of the human race by facilitating many individuals to perform actions they never would have had the resources to do otherwise.
  - timschmidt 1y ago
    > Should Emacs and Vim both be called "Editor" then? I've used some distributions in which they were. Tooltips and icons were provided to disambiguate. Worked for me. Other distributions name applications explicitly, some place them in a folder together named "Editors". None of the distributions I've used place either in a corporate branded subfolder as is typical on Windows and Mac. Freedom of choice is wonderful.
    - robenkleene 1y ago
      I don't mind corporate branding in general, e.g., if a company makes a great app, why shouldn't they be allow to put their name on it (in an appropriate place)? (And I do think great apps should have more memorable names than "Photo Editor".) (And I'm not sure I get the connection branding has to "Freedom of Choice"?) But, to your point, even I'll admit the fact that the Photoshop is called "Adobe Photoshop 2025" is annoying lol.
      - 1y ago
gedy 1y ago
That was maybe the case 10+ years ago but honestly have been using Fedora with Gnome on my M1, it's pretty polished and nice now.
markus_zhang 1y ago
[flagged]
- jll29 1y ago
  You are right in saying that discoverability has suffered much, by hiding scrollbar and similar changes. Also, you need to move the mouse precisely to a particular spot to re-enable the scrollbars, there is little wiggle room, which may may things harder for handicapped people, older users, or people on the move (e.g. me on a train).
  - markus_zhang 1y ago
    Yeah, e.g. when you have a very short scrollbar and had to guess where it is for more than 5 seconds...I'm kinda grow past that hype, nada, going back to Winux. It is SUCH a pity that they have extraordinary hardware (even with the price point I'd still consider it a bargin, especially for the air/mini)...
- MichealCodes 1y ago
  Or just the way the menus are on apps. Some app implement their own file/edit/view menus at the top of the app, then some will use the apple version at the top of the OS. If you plug in a TV to use as a monitor and cannot adjust the aspect ratio you're forced to blindly activate these menus as they're clipped from the screen. MacOS folder navigation is a complete pain too, sometimes you see the list of OS folders, sometimes you see only the folder you opened in finder. If the menu is clipped due to the above aspect ratio problem, good luck getting to your home folder... No functionality to easily open a folder in terminal. Lots of basics just counter-intuitive.
  - markus_zhang 1y ago
    Yeah, I found it not easy to go up one level in finder. Actually I had to Google when I tried first time. The way that MacOS wants to conceal information from the users is just insane. I don't know how it is justified. Nevertheless it has a good number of ardent fans.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

pxc 1y ago

Fully supported Linux + proper suspend-to-RAM are the two things I want out of Apple Silicon and may never quite get. Better online low power states are fine, but I want suspend-to-RAM and suspend-then-hibernate. If I close my laptop for a few days, I don't want significant battery drain. If I don't use it for two weeks, I want it to still have life left. And I don't want to write tens of gigabytes to disk every time I close the lid, either!

zozbot234 1y ago
What happens if you enable airplane mode before closing the laptop? That should power down all radios so battery drain should be approximately equivalent to S3 standby.
ValdikSS 1y ago
Sleep states are not trivial from the security perspective, and they've eliminated the issue by just not allowing it :)
- astrange 1y ago
  It does hibernate. It just takes a long time to do it because the experience of waking up from it is bad.

vuggamie 1y ago

The best part of MacOS for me is the unix tools. The command line is a real unix command line. And the rest just works. If I need a linux environment I ssh into a VPS.

epistasis 1y ago
Or even just containers on the Mac. Unless you need a GPU with specific hardware, or to connect to a cluster, there's ever decreasing need to use remote boxes.
Daneel_ 1y ago
Well, kind of.. the commands on Mac OS all just a little bit different and a little bit janky. I still had to relearn all the common commands I use in order to function. I survived 6 months before I went back to a Windows/WSL combo.
- epistasis 1y ago
  If you want the GNU versions of tools rather than the Mac POSIX versions, then brew can help replace your bin directory with all the GNU niceties. If you're talking about hardware interaction from the command line, that's very different and I don't think there's a fix.
- MobiusHorizons 1y ago
  Notice the op said Unix not Linux. Gnu made a lot of incompatible changes from the Unix tools it was cloning. Many people in the Linux community prefer the GNU quirks (they are definitely more performance optimized for example). But if you are talking about Unix, the FreeBSD derived userland on a Mac has real Unix lineage.
ghaff 1y ago
It doesn't matter for everyone/most. But, yes, having a Unix command line within MacOS is a pretty big win for some of us. Not something I use on a daily basis certainly. And I'd probably set up a Linux box (or ssh into one) if I really needed that routinely. But it's a nice bonus.

geodel 1y ago

"Fully supported by whom" is the issue and important one. Apple won't do it and going by support from "most people around here" Hector Martin et al got crumbs for years, nowhere near to support the development. One can just hand wave "Apple must support Linux and all" but that is not going to get anything done.

7e 1y ago

Linux is a vanity and the illusion is only skin-deep. The overall UX truly sucks.

KeplerBoy 1y ago
Which illusion? It's a computer, no more, no less and Linux is a perfectly fine interface to that computer.
rowanG077 1y ago
I don't understand. From a pure visual standpoint OSX beats. Linux is not particularly known for looking good or cohesive. But in basically all matters it beats the pants of OSX.
artisin 1y ago
The UX only sucks if you're unwilling to put in a minimal amount of time and effort. After that, it has no equal; it is, by definition, the opposite of vanity.
seattle_spring 1y ago
Absolutely ironic, coming from someone who claimed that thinking Bazel is overcomplex is "failing an IQ test."