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Apple has always been a software first company, and they only sell the hardware as a vehicle to their software. They regularly say this themselves and have alwa

by alt227 1y ago

Apple has always been a software first company, and they only sell the hardware as a vehicle to their software. They regularly say this themselves and have always called themselves a software company. Compare their hardware revenues with that of the app store and icloud subscriptions, you will see where they make most of their money. EDIT: I seem to be getting downvoted, so I will just leave this here for people to see I am not lying: https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-is-not-a-hardware-company-2013-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-is-not-a-hard...

RossBencina 1y ago
Apple has been calling themselves a consumer electronics company since at least 2006.
- alt227 1y ago
  "Apple views itself as a software company" - Steve Jobs (2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
  - RossBencina 1y ago
    Steve Jobs may have said that, but in 2006 I quite by accident ran into some mid-level Apple people at a guest house breakfast. I expressed my dismay at the poor manufacturing quality of my new Mac Book compared to my previous T-series IBM Think Pads. The Apple people politely explained that Apple was a consumer electronics company[1] and I should not expect business-grade products from Apple. [1] They used that exact term, and it has stuck with me ever since.
jsnell 1y ago
Sure, let's compare. Apple's product revenue in this fiscal year has been $233B, with a gross margin of $86B. Their services revenue is $80B with $60B gross margin.
- justincormack 1y ago
  Much of the service revenue is the payment from Google for search placement.
- alt227 1y ago
  Source?
  - jsnell 1y ago
    Good grief. Apple's official financials. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2025-q3/FY25_Q3_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2025-q3/FY25_Q3_Consol... Look, I totally understand making an off-hand comment like you did based on a gut feeling. Nobody can fact-check everything they write, and everyone is wrong sometimes. But it is pretty lazy to demand a source when you were just making things up. When challenged with specific and verifiable nubmers, you should have checked the single obvious source for the financials of any public company. Their quarterly statements.
bombcar 1y ago
Tim Apple is notoriously misinformed about his own company.
- alt227 1y ago
  I guess Steve Jobs was as well then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
ksec 1y ago
It goes back even further, Steve Jobs said Apple is a software company, you just have to buy its hardware to use it. It is the whole experience.
- alt227 1y ago
  Here is the quote for anyone who is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
wat10000 1y ago
I did that comparison and they make the vast majority of their money on hardware. Half of their revenue is iPhone, a quarter is services, and the remaining quarter is divided up among the other hardware products. Regardless of revenue, Apple isn't a hardware company or a software company. It's a product company. The hardware doesn't exist merely to run the software, nor does the software exist merely to give functionality to the hardware. Both exist to create the product. Neither side is the "main" one, they're both parts of what ultimately ships.
- alt227 1y ago
  Do the same calculation for profit instead of revenue.
  - wat10000 1y ago
    Are those numbers available? In any case, comment said revenue, not profit.
- alt227 1y ago
  > The hardware doesn't exist merely to run the software Watch this and maybe you might change your mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
  - wat10000 1y ago
    I think he's saying software is essential, not that it's the only thing. He contrasts the iPod with products from Japanese companies, which tend to make great hardware with crap software, and that software difference is why the iPod beat them. Modern Apple is also quite a bit more integrated. A company designing their own highly competitive CPUs is more hardware-oriented than one that gets their CPUs off the shelf from Intel.
achierius 1y ago
> Compare their hardware revenues with that of the app store and icloud subscriptions, you will see where they make most of their money. Yes, it's $70B a year from iPhones alone and $23B from the totality of the Services org. (including all app store / subscription proceeds). Significantly more than 50% of the company's total profits come from hardware sales.
- the_arun 1y ago
  Shouldn’t we compare profit? Instead of revenues?
  - transcriptase 1y ago
    McDonald’s is still a burger joint, even if the soda and fries are far higher margin.
    - spogbiper 1y ago
      mcds is more of a real estate company - https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burger/ https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burg...
- ertgbnm 1y ago
  In addition, making money off the software that others develop and sell on the app store doesn't make Apple more of a software company, it makes them a middle man.
  - alt227 1y ago
    IMO a middle man means you are in between 2 other services, taking a cut off the top. In this instance, apple not only created and curate the app store, but also invented the concept. In this case they are definitely not a middle man, they are a software company selling access to their software to developers.
- alt227 1y ago
HumblyTossed 1y ago
Tim is the CEO, he's going to say whatever he needs to in the moment to drive investment. Apple is and always has been a HW company first.
- alt227 1y ago
  OK So I guess when the CEO of a company explicitly says something about their company, we should just ignore it because he is 'in the moment'?
dylan604 1y ago
Apple has always? Sure, maybe today with collection % of sales from apps it looks like a software company. If there was no iDevcies, there'd be no need for app store. Your link is all about Cook, yet he was not always the CEO. Woz didn't care what software you ran, he just wanted the computer to be usable so you could run whatever software. Jobs wanted to restrict things, but it was still about running the hardware. Whatever Cook thinks Apple is now does not make it always been as you claim
- alt227 1y ago
  You know you might just have a point if you werent completely making that all up. Steve Jobs consistently made the point that Apples hardware is the same as everyone elses, what makes them different is they make the best software which enables the best user experience. Here see this quote from Steve Jobs which shows that his attitude is the complete opposite of what you wrote. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs

by alt227 1y ago

RossBencina 1y ago

Apple has been calling themselves a consumer electronics company since at least 2006.

alt227 1y ago
"Apple views itself as a software company" - Steve Jobs (2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
- RossBencina 1y ago
  Steve Jobs may have said that, but in 2006 I quite by accident ran into some mid-level Apple people at a guest house breakfast. I expressed my dismay at the poor manufacturing quality of my new Mac Book compared to my previous T-series IBM Think Pads. The Apple people politely explained that Apple was a consumer electronics company[1] and I should not expect business-grade products from Apple. [1] They used that exact term, and it has stuck with me ever since.

jsnell 1y ago

Sure, let's compare. Apple's product revenue in this fiscal year has been $233B, with a gross margin of $86B. Their services revenue is $80B with $60B gross margin.

justincormack 1y ago
Much of the service revenue is the payment from Google for search placement.
alt227 1y ago
Source?
- jsnell 1y ago
  Good grief. Apple's official financials. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2025-q3/FY25_Q3_Consolidated_Financial_Statements.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/fy2025-q3/FY25_Q3_Consol... Look, I totally understand making an off-hand comment like you did based on a gut feeling. Nobody can fact-check everything they write, and everyone is wrong sometimes. But it is pretty lazy to demand a source when you were just making things up. When challenged with specific and verifiable nubmers, you should have checked the single obvious source for the financials of any public company. Their quarterly statements.

bombcar 1y ago

Tim Apple is notoriously misinformed about his own company.

alt227 1y ago
I guess Steve Jobs was as well then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs

ksec 1y ago

It goes back even further, Steve Jobs said Apple is a software company, you just have to buy its hardware to use it. It is the whole experience.

alt227 1y ago
Here is the quote for anyone who is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs

wat10000 1y ago

I did that comparison and they make the vast majority of their money on hardware. Half of their revenue is iPhone, a quarter is services, and the remaining quarter is divided up among the other hardware products. Regardless of revenue, Apple isn't a hardware company or a software company. It's a product company. The hardware doesn't exist merely to run the software, nor does the software exist merely to give functionality to the hardware. Both exist to create the product. Neither side is the "main" one, they're both parts of what ultimately ships.

alt227 1y ago
Do the same calculation for profit instead of revenue.
- wat10000 1y ago
  Are those numbers available? In any case, comment said revenue, not profit.
alt227 1y ago
> The hardware doesn't exist merely to run the software Watch this and maybe you might change your mind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
- wat10000 1y ago
  I think he's saying software is essential, not that it's the only thing. He contrasts the iPod with products from Japanese companies, which tend to make great hardware with crap software, and that software difference is why the iPod beat them. Modern Apple is also quite a bit more integrated. A company designing their own highly competitive CPUs is more hardware-oriented than one that gets their CPUs off the shelf from Intel.

achierius 1y ago

> Compare their hardware revenues with that of the app store and icloud subscriptions, you will see where they make most of their money. Yes, it's $70B a year from iPhones alone and $23B from the totality of the Services org. (including all app store / subscription proceeds). Significantly more than 50% of the company's total profits come from hardware sales.

the_arun 1y ago
Shouldn’t we compare profit? Instead of revenues?
- transcriptase 1y ago
  McDonald’s is still a burger joint, even if the soda and fries are far higher margin.
  - spogbiper 1y ago
    mcds is more of a real estate company - https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burger/ https://www.wallstreetsurvivor.com/mcdonalds-beyond-the-burg...
ertgbnm 1y ago
In addition, making money off the software that others develop and sell on the app store doesn't make Apple more of a software company, it makes them a middle man.
- alt227 1y ago
  IMO a middle man means you are in between 2 other services, taking a cut off the top. In this instance, apple not only created and curate the app store, but also invented the concept. In this case they are definitely not a middle man, they are a software company selling access to their software to developers.
alt227 1y ago

HumblyTossed 1y ago

Tim is the CEO, he's going to say whatever he needs to in the moment to drive investment. Apple is and always has been a HW company first.

alt227 1y ago
OK So I guess when the CEO of a company explicitly says something about their company, we should just ignore it because he is 'in the moment'?

dylan604 1y ago

Apple has always? Sure, maybe today with collection % of sales from apps it looks like a software company. If there was no iDevcies, there'd be no need for app store. Your link is all about Cook, yet he was not always the CEO. Woz didn't care what software you ran, he just wanted the computer to be usable so you could run whatever software. Jobs wanted to restrict things, but it was still about running the hardware. Whatever Cook thinks Apple is now does not make it always been as you claim

alt227 1y ago
You know you might just have a point if you werent completely making that all up. Steve Jobs consistently made the point that Apples hardware is the same as everyone elses, what makes them different is they make the best software which enables the best user experience. Here see this quote from Steve Jobs which shows that his attitude is the complete opposite of what you wrote. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs