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Apple has always been a hardware company first - think of how they sell consumers computers with the OS for free, while Microsoft primarily just sells the OS (w

Apple has always been a hardware company first - think of how they sell consumers computers with the OS for free, while Microsoft primarily just sells the OS (when comparing the consumer business; I don’t want to get into all the other stuff Microsoft does). Now that they own the SoC design pipeline, they’re really able to flex these muscles.

Hamuko 1y ago
Not really. Back in the day you wouldn't buy a MacBook because it was powerful. Most likely it had a very shitty Intel CPU with not a lot of cores and with thermal challenges, and the reason you bought it was because macOS.
- alt227 1y ago
  > very shitty Intel CPU with not a lot of cores and with thermal challenges Very often the intel chips in macbooks were stellar, they were just seriously inhibited by Apples terrible cooling designs and so were permanently throttled. They could never provide decent cooling for the chips coupled with their desire to make paper thin devices.
  - scrlk 1y ago
    They made things even worse with fan curves tuned for silence until the CPU was practically at TjMax.
  - kllrnohj 1y ago
    > They could never provide decent cooling for the chips coupled with their desire to make paper thin devices. Curiously they managed to figure this out exactly when it became their silicon instead (M1 MacBook Pros were notably thicker and with more cooling capacity than the outgoing Intel ones)
    - alt227 1y ago
      I still believe they purposefully throttled the last gen of intel Macs just to make people have bad memories of them.
    - bzzzt 1y ago
      I presume they were just playing it safe to not let the M1 migration flop. If you're dragging your users through a big migration the last thing you need is complaints about the new hardware...
- chasil 1y ago
  And in many decades past, OpenStep was slowly moving its GUI from Next hardware to software sales on various UNIX platforms and Windows NT. And this would eventually evolve into MacOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep
- qwertytyyuu 1y ago
  not just mac os, also the decent keyboard and actually good display, guarenteed.
  - a96 1y ago
    Displays only got usable after Retina. Which is still very recent.
- fnord123 1y ago
  The intel laptops also grounded into the user. I still can't believe they didn't have a recall to sort that out.
  - hinkley 1y ago
    The tingling just lets you know you're alive.
  - seec 1y ago
    Apple is extremely dumb with power management and power supply. That's because they pretended to innovate all the way back at the start and want to pretend, they still have the expertise. But I have had 2 iMac power supply die one me, the grounding problem on a MBP and a major annoyance with power noise leaking from a Mac Mini (makes for some nasty audio output, hilarious when you consider they supposedly target creative who clearly need good audio output). You always find people raving about Apple's engineering prowess but my experience is that it's mostly a smoke show, they make things look good, miniaturise/oversimplify beyond what is reasonable and you often end up with major hardware flaws that are just a pain to deal with. They always managed to have good performance and a premium feeling package but I don't think their engineering tradeoffs are actually very good most of the time. As far as I can tell, the new Mac Mini design still has grounding issues, and you will get humming issues, which is beyond stupid for a product of that caliber. At this point I don't care about having the power supply inside the dam box, just use a brick if you must to prevent that sort of problem. This is particularly infuriating since they made the iMac PSU external, which is beyond stupid for an AiO. But common sense left Apple a long time ago and now they just chase specs benchmarks and fashionnable UIs above everything.
- hamdingers 1y ago
  Nope, many bought it in spite of macOS because it was a durable laptop with an excellent screen, good keyboard, and (afaik still) the only trackpad that didn't suck.
  - NetMageSCW 1y ago
    I think “many” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
    - a96 1y ago
      There are dozens of us!
- leptons 1y ago
  >the reason you bought it was because macOS. That is probably the least of reasons why people buy Apple - to many it's just a status symbol, and the OS is a secondary consideration.
  - NetMageSCW 1y ago
    You have funny ideas about why people spend money on laptops.
    - leptons 1y ago
      You don't have to take my word for it, it's been talked about for many years. https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+products+as+status+symbol https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+products+as+status+sym...
alt227 1y ago
Apple has always been a software first company, and they only sell the hardware as a vehicle to their software. They regularly say this themselves and have always called themselves a software company. Compare their hardware revenues with that of the app store and icloud subscriptions, you will see where they make most of their money. EDIT: I seem to be getting downvoted, so I will just leave this here for people to see I am not lying: https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-is-not-a-hardware-company-2013-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-is-not-a-hard...
- RossBencina 1y ago
  Apple has been calling themselves a consumer electronics company since at least 2006.
  - alt227 1y ago
    "Apple views itself as a software company" - Steve Jobs (2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
    - RossBencina 1y ago
      Steve Jobs may have said that, but in 2006 I quite by accident ran into some mid-level Apple people at a guest house breakfast. I expressed my dismay at the poor manufacturing quality of my new Mac Book compared to my previous T-series IBM Think Pads. The Apple people politely explained that Apple was a consumer electronics company[1] and I should not expect business-grade products from Apple. [1] They used that exact term, and it has stuck with me ever since.
- jsnell 1y ago
  Sure, let's compare. Apple's product revenue in this fiscal year has been $233B, with a gross margin of $86B. Their services revenue is $80B with $60B gross margin.
  - justincormack 1y ago
ViktorRay 1y ago
Steve Jobs himself said that Apple sees itself as a software company https://youtu.be/dEeyaAUCyZs https://youtu.be/dEeyaAUCyZs The above link is a video where he mentions that. It is true that Apple’s major software products like iOS and MacOS are only available on Apple’s own hardware. But the Steve Jobs justification for this (which he said in a different interview I can’t find right now so I will paraphrase) is that he felt Apple made the best hardware and software in the world so he wanted Apple’s customers to experience the best software on the best hardware possible which he felt only Apple could provide. (I wish I could find the exact quote.) Anyway according to Steve Jobs Apple is a software first company.
- hinkley 1y ago
  But Steve also clearly believed in Alan Kay's old aphorism: If you care about software you have to make your own hardware. I'll allow that perhaps Apple considers hardware a means to an end. But what an end.

Hamuko 1y ago

Not really. Back in the day you wouldn't buy a MacBook because it was powerful. Most likely it had a very shitty Intel CPU with not a lot of cores and with thermal challenges, and the reason you bought it was because macOS.

alt227 1y ago
> very shitty Intel CPU with not a lot of cores and with thermal challenges Very often the intel chips in macbooks were stellar, they were just seriously inhibited by Apples terrible cooling designs and so were permanently throttled. They could never provide decent cooling for the chips coupled with their desire to make paper thin devices.
- scrlk 1y ago
  They made things even worse with fan curves tuned for silence until the CPU was practically at TjMax.
- kllrnohj 1y ago
  > They could never provide decent cooling for the chips coupled with their desire to make paper thin devices. Curiously they managed to figure this out exactly when it became their silicon instead (M1 MacBook Pros were notably thicker and with more cooling capacity than the outgoing Intel ones)
  - alt227 1y ago
    I still believe they purposefully throttled the last gen of intel Macs just to make people have bad memories of them.
  - bzzzt 1y ago
    I presume they were just playing it safe to not let the M1 migration flop. If you're dragging your users through a big migration the last thing you need is complaints about the new hardware...
chasil 1y ago
And in many decades past, OpenStep was slowly moving its GUI from Next hardware to software sales on various UNIX platforms and Windows NT. And this would eventually evolve into MacOS. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenStep
qwertytyyuu 1y ago
not just mac os, also the decent keyboard and actually good display, guarenteed.
- a96 1y ago
  Displays only got usable after Retina. Which is still very recent.
fnord123 1y ago
The intel laptops also grounded into the user. I still can't believe they didn't have a recall to sort that out.
- hinkley 1y ago
  The tingling just lets you know you're alive.
- seec 1y ago
  Apple is extremely dumb with power management and power supply. That's because they pretended to innovate all the way back at the start and want to pretend, they still have the expertise. But I have had 2 iMac power supply die one me, the grounding problem on a MBP and a major annoyance with power noise leaking from a Mac Mini (makes for some nasty audio output, hilarious when you consider they supposedly target creative who clearly need good audio output). You always find people raving about Apple's engineering prowess but my experience is that it's mostly a smoke show, they make things look good, miniaturise/oversimplify beyond what is reasonable and you often end up with major hardware flaws that are just a pain to deal with. They always managed to have good performance and a premium feeling package but I don't think their engineering tradeoffs are actually very good most of the time. As far as I can tell, the new Mac Mini design still has grounding issues, and you will get humming issues, which is beyond stupid for a product of that caliber. At this point I don't care about having the power supply inside the dam box, just use a brick if you must to prevent that sort of problem. This is particularly infuriating since they made the iMac PSU external, which is beyond stupid for an AiO. But common sense left Apple a long time ago and now they just chase specs benchmarks and fashionnable UIs above everything.
hamdingers 1y ago
Nope, many bought it in spite of macOS because it was a durable laptop with an excellent screen, good keyboard, and (afaik still) the only trackpad that didn't suck.
- NetMageSCW 1y ago
  I think “many” is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
  - a96 1y ago
    There are dozens of us!
leptons 1y ago
>the reason you bought it was because macOS. That is probably the least of reasons why people buy Apple - to many it's just a status symbol, and the OS is a secondary consideration.
- NetMageSCW 1y ago
  You have funny ideas about why people spend money on laptops.
  - leptons 1y ago
    You don't have to take my word for it, it's been talked about for many years. https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+products+as+status+symbol https://www.google.com/search?q=apple+products+as+status+sym...

alt227 1y ago

Apple has always been a software first company, and they only sell the hardware as a vehicle to their software. They regularly say this themselves and have always called themselves a software company. Compare their hardware revenues with that of the app store and icloud subscriptions, you will see where they make most of their money. EDIT: I seem to be getting downvoted, so I will just leave this here for people to see I am not lying: https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-is-not-a-hardware-company-2013-2 https://www.businessinsider.com/tim-cook-apple-is-not-a-hard...

RossBencina 1y ago
Apple has been calling themselves a consumer electronics company since at least 2006.
- alt227 1y ago
  "Apple views itself as a software company" - Steve Jobs (2007) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEeyaAUCyZs
  - RossBencina 1y ago
    Steve Jobs may have said that, but in 2006 I quite by accident ran into some mid-level Apple people at a guest house breakfast. I expressed my dismay at the poor manufacturing quality of my new Mac Book compared to my previous T-series IBM Think Pads. The Apple people politely explained that Apple was a consumer electronics company[1] and I should not expect business-grade products from Apple. [1] They used that exact term, and it has stuck with me ever since.
jsnell 1y ago
Sure, let's compare. Apple's product revenue in this fiscal year has been $233B, with a gross margin of $86B. Their services revenue is $80B with $60B gross margin.
- justincormack 1y ago

ViktorRay 1y ago

Steve Jobs himself said that Apple sees itself as a software company https://youtu.be/dEeyaAUCyZs https://youtu.be/dEeyaAUCyZs The above link is a video where he mentions that. It is true that Apple’s major software products like iOS and MacOS are only available on Apple’s own hardware. But the Steve Jobs justification for this (which he said in a different interview I can’t find right now so I will paraphrase) is that he felt Apple made the best hardware and software in the world so he wanted Apple’s customers to experience the best software on the best hardware possible which he felt only Apple could provide. (I wish I could find the exact quote.) Anyway according to Steve Jobs Apple is a software first company.

hinkley 1y ago
But Steve also clearly believed in Alan Kay's old aphorism: If you care about software you have to make your own hardware. I'll allow that perhaps Apple considers hardware a means to an end. But what an end.