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We should move well beyond human analogies. I have never met a human that would straight up lie about something, or build up so much deceptive tests that it mig

We should move well beyond human analogies. I have never met a human that would straight up lie about something, or build up so much deceptive tests that it might as well be lying. Granted this is not super common in these tools, but it is essentially unheard of in junior devs.

8organicbits 1y ago
> I have never met a human that would straight up lie about something This doesn't match my experience. Consider high profile things like the VW emissions scandal, where the control system was intentionally programmed to only engage during the emissions test. Dictators. People are prone to lie when it's in their self interest, especially for self preservation. We have entire structures of government, courts, that try to resolve fact in the face of lying. If we consider true-but-misleading, then politics, marketing, etc. come sharply into view. I think the challenge is that we don't know when an LLM will generate untrue output, but we expect people to lie in certain circumstances. LLMs don't have clear self-interests, or self awareness to lie with intent. It's just useful noise.
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  There is an enormous amount of difference between planned deception as part of a product, and undermining your own product with deceptive reporting about its quality. The difference is collaboration and alignment. You might have evil goals, but if your developers are maliciously incompetent, no goal will be accomplished.
beyarkay 1y ago
> Granted this is not super common in these tools, but it is essentially unheard of in junior devs. I wonder if it's unheard of in junior devs because they're all saints, or because they're not talented enough to get away with it?
- jvanderbot 1y ago
  Incentives align against lying about what you built. You'd be found out immediately. There's no "shame" button with these chatbots.

8organicbits 1y ago

> I have never met a human that would straight up lie about something This doesn't match my experience. Consider high profile things like the VW emissions scandal, where the control system was intentionally programmed to only engage during the emissions test. Dictators. People are prone to lie when it's in their self interest, especially for self preservation. We have entire structures of government, courts, that try to resolve fact in the face of lying. If we consider true-but-misleading, then politics, marketing, etc. come sharply into view. I think the challenge is that we don't know when an LLM will generate untrue output, but we expect people to lie in certain circumstances. LLMs don't have clear self-interests, or self awareness to lie with intent. It's just useful noise.

jvanderbot 1y ago
There is an enormous amount of difference between planned deception as part of a product, and undermining your own product with deceptive reporting about its quality. The difference is collaboration and alignment. You might have evil goals, but if your developers are maliciously incompetent, no goal will be accomplished.

beyarkay 1y ago

> Granted this is not super common in these tools, but it is essentially unheard of in junior devs. I wonder if it's unheard of in junior devs because they're all saints, or because they're not talented enough to get away with it?

jvanderbot 1y ago
Incentives align against lying about what you built. You'd be found out immediately. There's no "shame" button with these chatbots.