4 ms·

their business is scam center that by definition is not counted by GDP anyway

by tonyhart7 1y ago

alecsm 1y ago
Which makes it worse. A scamming operation that is 1/3 of the GDP is huuuuuuge.
- Muromec 1y ago
  It’s apples to oranges really. You confuse turnover with capital here.
  - alecsm 1y ago
    I know the comparison is not correct but lets you see the magnitude of the operation.
IanCal 1y ago
That’s not necessarily true, though may be for Cambodia. GDP can include black market activities but countries differ in whether they include specific ones and how.
- bilekas 1y ago
  Right, it's not black market if you eventually pay some taxes on it somewhere. Dare we call it washed money, and for our American friends in the audience, laundered money.
  - boredumb 1y ago
    as a pedantic aside Americans use the term washed or washing money interchangeably with laundering or laundered money
  - shkkmo 1y ago
    Laundering the proceeds from a black market transaction doesn't make the black market transaction not a black market transaction.
- HPsquared 1y ago
  Does it even count in there though? Fraud isn't a normal transaction. It's the same as theft, which is simply a transfer from one person to another. An act of fraud or theft doesn't represent creation of value the way profit from legitimate transactions do for "black market" goods/services (even if the goods/services are illegal).
  - spacebanana7 1y ago
    If we're just talking about the formula of GDP = gov spend + investment + consumption + net exports, then scamming foreigners would be captured under the "net exports" category. Similar to remittances, which are quite significant components of GDP for some countries. Admittedly it's doubtful whether this kind of activity would be captured by official statistics.
    - HPsquared 1y ago
      Remittances aren't counted towards GDP either. The funds can contribute indirectly, as consumption or investment, if spent locally. This $15B didn't make it that far, though.
  - IanCal 1y ago
    That’s a good point, transferring of assets isn’t counted - although if it’s imports perhaps that’s different. The cost of scamming may be counted, paying people to perform scams certainly could be depending on the type of calculation you do. I know it’s a bit of a get out clause but it’s at least not obvious to me that this wouldn’t contribute, certainly the illegal nature is not a blocker for being counted in GDP.
bilekas 1y ago
That money would have flowed somewhere, also I'm not sure OP was talking about impacting the GDP just quantizing it. For Cambodia, it's an extraordinary amount of money. Actually for anywhere it's a ridiculous amount of money.
jowea 1y ago
There are countries that count illegal activities in their GDP estimates. And should their state sponsored criminal activities count for North Korean GDP for example?

their business is scam center that by definition is not counted by GDP anyway

alecsm 1y ago

Which makes it worse. A scamming operation that is 1/3 of the GDP is huuuuuuge.

Muromec 1y ago
It’s apples to oranges really. You confuse turnover with capital here.
- alecsm 1y ago
  I know the comparison is not correct but lets you see the magnitude of the operation.

IanCal 1y ago

That’s not necessarily true, though may be for Cambodia. GDP can include black market activities but countries differ in whether they include specific ones and how.

bilekas 1y ago
Right, it's not black market if you eventually pay some taxes on it somewhere. Dare we call it washed money, and for our American friends in the audience, laundered money.
- boredumb 1y ago
  as a pedantic aside Americans use the term washed or washing money interchangeably with laundering or laundered money
- shkkmo 1y ago
  Laundering the proceeds from a black market transaction doesn't make the black market transaction not a black market transaction.
HPsquared 1y ago
Does it even count in there though? Fraud isn't a normal transaction. It's the same as theft, which is simply a transfer from one person to another. An act of fraud or theft doesn't represent creation of value the way profit from legitimate transactions do for "black market" goods/services (even if the goods/services are illegal).
- spacebanana7 1y ago
  If we're just talking about the formula of GDP = gov spend + investment + consumption + net exports, then scamming foreigners would be captured under the "net exports" category. Similar to remittances, which are quite significant components of GDP for some countries. Admittedly it's doubtful whether this kind of activity would be captured by official statistics.
  - HPsquared 1y ago
    Remittances aren't counted towards GDP either. The funds can contribute indirectly, as consumption or investment, if spent locally. This $15B didn't make it that far, though.
- IanCal 1y ago
  That’s a good point, transferring of assets isn’t counted - although if it’s imports perhaps that’s different. The cost of scamming may be counted, paying people to perform scams certainly could be depending on the type of calculation you do. I know it’s a bit of a get out clause but it’s at least not obvious to me that this wouldn’t contribute, certainly the illegal nature is not a blocker for being counted in GDP.

bilekas 1y ago

That money would have flowed somewhere, also I'm not sure OP was talking about impacting the GDP just quantizing it. For Cambodia, it's an extraordinary amount of money. Actually for anywhere it's a ridiculous amount of money.

jowea 1y ago

There are countries that count illegal activities in their GDP estimates. And should their state sponsored criminal activities count for North Korean GDP for example?