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Steelmanning the "we must force tool usage" position: it's possible that a tool does increase productivity, but there's either a steep learning curve (productiv
by lovecg 1y ago
Steelmanning the "we must force tool usage" position: it's possible that a tool does increase productivity, but there's either a steep learning curve (productivity only improves after sustained usage) or network effects (most people must use it for anyone to benefit).
No opinion on whether or not this applies to the current moment. But maybe someone should try forcing Dvorak layout on everyone or something like that for a competitive edge!
- resonious 1y agoI once had a boss who saw me use Vim and was really impressed with how quickly I could jump around files and make precision edits. He tried getting the other devs (not many, < 5) to use Vim too but it didn't quite pan out. I would guess that interest, passion, and motivation all play a role here. It's kind of like programming itself. If you sit people down and make them program for awhile, some will get good at it and some won't.
- eCa 1y ago> I would guess that interest, passion, and motivation all play a role here. And, to use less pointed language, people’s brains are wired differently. What works for one doesn’t necessarily work for another, even with similar interest, passion, and motivation.
- rkomorn 1y agoI agree with this. I was using emacs for a while, but when I switched to vim, something about the different modes just really meshed with how I thought about what I was doing, and I enjoyed it way more and stuck to it for a couple of decades. I see people that I'd say are more proficient with their emacs, VS Code, etc setups than I am with my vim setup, so I don't think there's anything special about vim other than "it works for me".
- mabster 1y agoI worked with a developer that copied and pasted A LOT and would keep his fingers on the old copy and paste buttons (Ctrl-Ins, etc.). I've even seen him copy and paste single letters. He's one of the most productive developers I've ever worked with.
- Xenoamorphous 1y agoI've had plenty of interest, passion and motivation during my career. But never, ever, directed at learning something like vim, even if it's going to make me more productive. I'd rather learn almost any other of the myriad of topics related with software development that the quirks of an opinionated editor. I especially hate memorising shortcuts and commands.
- lelandfe 1y agoYour old boss probably would have been a bit chastened if he knew said devs would then be spending their hours learning how to exit Vim instead of programming
- vidarh 1y agoThere was a time where I'd change to a different terminal and do sudo killall -9 to get out vim. And that time when I changed vim to a symlink to emacs on a shared login server and sat back and enjoyed the carnage. (I did change it back relatively quickly)
- lawn 1y agoIf learning how to exit Vim takes hours then they aren't worth keeping as employees anyway.
- linhns 1y agoYep, there is a how-to displayed when you enter vim without opening any files.
- raverbashing 1y agoVim's learning curve is much steeper to be honest
- procaryote 1y agoCoding agents seem to be in the fun paradox of "it's so easy to use, anyone can code!" and "using it productively is a deep skill, and we have to force people to use it so they learn"
- lovecg 1y agoBut it’s both, isn’t it? It’s so easy to use, anyone without any coding experience whatsoever can produce a somewhat working prototype. It’s hard to use well, most experienced developers will end up with net negative productivity without learning what works and what doesn’t.
- ozgrakkurt 1y agoProgramming isn’t a government desk job. The interface between programmer and company should be the output only, they can’t force a programmer to use w/e bs they think is good at the time
- bagacrap 1y agoCan you come up with other examples of forced tool usage that retrospectively made sense?