4 ms·

Hyperbole of this comment aside, what else do you suggest then? It's a fundamental tradeoff between allowing multiple ways for apps to be installed or forcing

Hyperbole of this comment aside, what else do you suggest then? It's a fundamental tradeoff between allowing multiple ways for apps to be installed or forcing everything through a single installation workflow (a la iOS and its App Store).

margalabargala 1y ago
Nothing in my comment was hyperbolic. The median price of a current gen iphone is $999. The people OP is asking about are not typical HN users; asking them to change phone operating systems is an unreasonably onerous ask. OP had a good suggestion for a solution, something that allows gating surprise app installs.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  Anyone who is trying to save money shouldn't buy the "median" device. Just get an older iphone or the SE if you want it. Doesn't make sense. “I’m in top 10 percent of price conscious users so I want 50th percent device”? Just illogical behavior.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    An older iPhone or an SE is still hundreds of dollars more device than these people need.
    - BoredPositron 1y ago
      It's not even a hundred dollars for the 2020 SE model which still has 2 years of updates in it. For the newer 2022 model it's under 200 from refurb sellers. You can get 13s for under 250. You can even get apple care with the new subscription model and sneak a new battery for 12 bucks. Arguing with bogus facts is bad manner.
      - margalabargala 1y ago
        You're awfully cavalier with other people's money. Some would call that "bad manners" too since you brought it up. Buying a $100 phone every other year when offered an android phone for free from the carrier is a meaningfully bad financial decision for people less well off than yourself. You are fortunate to be in a position to not have to worry about money like that, but try to have compassion for people less rich than yourself.
        BoredPositron 1y ago
        Oh stop the wiggling. You said hundreds of dollars and they aren't. Now you are switching your argument to "free phones" there are no free phones you still pay for them. In lower income countries your carrier even installs malware as part of their bloat itself. The backmarket prizes in these countries are even more attainable for older iPhone models. Instead of paying your shady carrier you can finance the refurbs. Just stop making shit up and the petty emotional misdirection when you are called out. Judging from your other comments in themis thread it's your go to discussion instrument...
        margalabargala 1y ago
        You're making an impressively bad faith argument here. Yes if you buy an ancient device it is less. If we compare apples to apples, or apples to androids, you could buy an equally old android device for next to nothing. Any "wiggling" was because the discussion was about new devices before you decided to pretend to miss the context clues. You are delusional if you think that there exists an iPhone that is not much more expensive than a lower end Android of a similar age. All the namecalling and pretending in the world won't make it otherwise.
        anonymars 1y ago
        > 2020 SE model which still has 2 years of updates in it > You can even get apple care with the new subscription model and sneak a new battery for 12 bucks > you could buy an equally old android device for next to nothing Is that Android device going to have any support or security updates or battery life?
- DrewADesign 1y ago
  I’m not saying that you should cajole them into doing something they don’t want to do, but in case it’s useful to anyone else reading this, I had a good experience having family make that switch for that reason. Having used Google, Samsung, and Apple phones extensively, I knew that switching to iOS is way less frustrating than going in the other direction, or even from vanilla Android to Samsung, IMO. The iPhone 16e is more than sufficient for a non-demanding users and is $599 totally unsubsidized, without trade-in, and they really do keep ticking for years for basic needs. (I got them iPhone SEs years ago and they just upgraded recently.) Quite usefully, my family lives near a few Apple Stores, so they can go in and get user support (including backup/phone reset type stuff) for free nearly on-demand, which saved me a lot of time mitigating someone just downloading some bullshit that had a name like “Weather Zone Plus Free Pro Traffic Weather News Games Center Deluxe Free (no ads)” that totally horked their setup.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    $599 for a phone is frankly exorbitant for what is required here. The phone they have have that was being asked about is probably either free or close to it with carrier incentives. Here on HN we are in a bit of a bubble. Most users of this site can just make a $500 purchase if they want to and not think about it. The median American's liquid savings are well under $10k, and buying the least expensive iPhone is a burden. "Buy an iPhone" is not a suggestion that should be made to a person who would have to put it on a credit card and would be unable to 0at.it off that month.
    - filmgirlcw 1y ago
      And you can get iPhone 14s for $99 on occasion as long as you commit to prepaid service from Total Wireless/Trac Fone for 3 months (so about $180 - so your total price for the phone and 3 months of service is about $300) or you can use carrier trade-in deals to get hundreds of dollars off an iPhone 17, as long as you stay on a postpaid plan and take the credit over 3 years. Yes, there are way more options to get sub $500 Android phones, but pretending like an iPhone is too expensive for most Americans when carrier deals are often as good or better for iPhone options (to say nothing of the older phones being sold by Total Wireless and the like) and when more people in the United States use iPhone vs Android is a little bit silly. We just got $1130 from Verizon for my husband's old iPhone 14 Plus towards his new iPhone 17 Pro (I get a new phone every year so I’m just on the Apple Upgrade plan or I buy it outright each year, whereas he gets a new phone every 3 years or so), making it essentially free (we had to change the plan he was on but it cost the same as the old plan) and if he’d wanted a regular iPhone 17, he could’ve dropped down to a cheaper phone plan too. A 16e would’ve been even less than that.

margalabargala 1y ago

Nothing in my comment was hyperbolic. The median price of a current gen iphone is $999. The people OP is asking about are not typical HN users; asking them to change phone operating systems is an unreasonably onerous ask. OP had a good suggestion for a solution, something that allows gating surprise app installs.

renewiltord 1y ago
Anyone who is trying to save money shouldn't buy the "median" device. Just get an older iphone or the SE if you want it. Doesn't make sense. “I’m in top 10 percent of price conscious users so I want 50th percent device”? Just illogical behavior.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  An older iPhone or an SE is still hundreds of dollars more device than these people need.
  - BoredPositron 1y ago
    It's not even a hundred dollars for the 2020 SE model which still has 2 years of updates in it. For the newer 2022 model it's under 200 from refurb sellers. You can get 13s for under 250. You can even get apple care with the new subscription model and sneak a new battery for 12 bucks. Arguing with bogus facts is bad manner.
    - margalabargala 1y ago
      You're awfully cavalier with other people's money. Some would call that "bad manners" too since you brought it up. Buying a $100 phone every other year when offered an android phone for free from the carrier is a meaningfully bad financial decision for people less well off than yourself. You are fortunate to be in a position to not have to worry about money like that, but try to have compassion for people less rich than yourself.
      - BoredPositron 1y ago
        Oh stop the wiggling. You said hundreds of dollars and they aren't. Now you are switching your argument to "free phones" there are no free phones you still pay for them. In lower income countries your carrier even installs malware as part of their bloat itself. The backmarket prizes in these countries are even more attainable for older iPhone models. Instead of paying your shady carrier you can finance the refurbs. Just stop making shit up and the petty emotional misdirection when you are called out. Judging from your other comments in themis thread it's your go to discussion instrument...
        margalabargala 1y ago
        You're making an impressively bad faith argument here. Yes if you buy an ancient device it is less. If we compare apples to apples, or apples to androids, you could buy an equally old android device for next to nothing. Any "wiggling" was because the discussion was about new devices before you decided to pretend to miss the context clues. You are delusional if you think that there exists an iPhone that is not much more expensive than a lower end Android of a similar age. All the namecalling and pretending in the world won't make it otherwise.
        anonymars 1y ago
        > 2020 SE model which still has 2 years of updates in it > You can even get apple care with the new subscription model and sneak a new battery for 12 bucks > you could buy an equally old android device for next to nothing Is that Android device going to have any support or security updates or battery life?
DrewADesign 1y ago
I’m not saying that you should cajole them into doing something they don’t want to do, but in case it’s useful to anyone else reading this, I had a good experience having family make that switch for that reason. Having used Google, Samsung, and Apple phones extensively, I knew that switching to iOS is way less frustrating than going in the other direction, or even from vanilla Android to Samsung, IMO. The iPhone 16e is more than sufficient for a non-demanding users and is $599 totally unsubsidized, without trade-in, and they really do keep ticking for years for basic needs. (I got them iPhone SEs years ago and they just upgraded recently.) Quite usefully, my family lives near a few Apple Stores, so they can go in and get user support (including backup/phone reset type stuff) for free nearly on-demand, which saved me a lot of time mitigating someone just downloading some bullshit that had a name like “Weather Zone Plus Free Pro Traffic Weather News Games Center Deluxe Free (no ads)” that totally horked their setup.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  $599 for a phone is frankly exorbitant for what is required here. The phone they have have that was being asked about is probably either free or close to it with carrier incentives. Here on HN we are in a bit of a bubble. Most users of this site can just make a $500 purchase if they want to and not think about it. The median American's liquid savings are well under $10k, and buying the least expensive iPhone is a burden. "Buy an iPhone" is not a suggestion that should be made to a person who would have to put it on a credit card and would be unable to 0at.it off that month.
  - filmgirlcw 1y ago
    And you can get iPhone 14s for $99 on occasion as long as you commit to prepaid service from Total Wireless/Trac Fone for 3 months (so about $180 - so your total price for the phone and 3 months of service is about $300) or you can use carrier trade-in deals to get hundreds of dollars off an iPhone 17, as long as you stay on a postpaid plan and take the credit over 3 years. Yes, there are way more options to get sub $500 Android phones, but pretending like an iPhone is too expensive for most Americans when carrier deals are often as good or better for iPhone options (to say nothing of the older phones being sold by Total Wireless and the like) and when more people in the United States use iPhone vs Android is a little bit silly. We just got $1130 from Verizon for my husband's old iPhone 14 Plus towards his new iPhone 17 Pro (I get a new phone every year so I’m just on the Apple Upgrade plan or I buy it outright each year, whereas he gets a new phone every 3 years or so), making it essentially free (we had to change the plan he was on but it cost the same as the old plan) and if he’d wanted a regular iPhone 17, he could’ve dropped down to a cheaper phone plan too. A 16e would’ve been even less than that.