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Long overdue. At some point, these scam operations are so large that they have to be operating with tacit approval of their host countries, who have been given

Long overdue. At some point, these scam operations are so large that they have to be operating with tacit approval of their host countries, who have been given no incentive to stop the virtual cold war against the personal finances of foreign citizenry that is bringing in millions of dollars into their economy.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> the virtual cold war against the personal finances of foreign citizenry Comparing a scam to war is inaccurate. The Cold War was a war running cold with the potential to go hot. Cambodia and America are not going to war over this.
- nicechianti 1y ago
  [dead]
- greenchair 1y ago
  that's a pretty naive view of war. we are at war with many countries all the time, most of it is cold.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > we are at war with many countries all the time, most of it is cold Like whom? We (and let's be honest, every other great power) are at war with many countries all of the time, and while they may be cold for long stretches, they absolutely (a) go hot from time to time and (b) are constantly threatening to go hot.
  - _carbyau_ 1y ago
    I this similar concept, differently. To me "war" is a state of "no rules" hurting. IE nuclear, biological, any weapon goes. Anything less is an exercise in restraint - even if still quite terrible in it's own right. Which means there are lots of "exercises" of varying lethality, risk profiles, spheres of influence, etc. And yes many countries are jockeying against other countries in varying ways. Large scale scams against other countries could be seen as an unintended (not a planned government action) exercise that is condoned by the government.
  - jowea 1y ago
    Maybe we should call it "conflict", and include non-state actors.
    - h33t-l4x0r 1y ago
      Let's go with macro-aggressions and put trigger warnings on them
- bobthepanda 1y ago
  Interestingly enough, China is thought to have leaned on the scales in Myanmar’s civil conflict due to pig-butchering there. (Not only were they scamming Chinese, they were also human trafficking them to operate the scams.)
  - alephnerd 1y ago
    China only began executing those pig-butcherers when the EAO that was providing protection to Chinese pig-butchering gangs in that region of Myanmar (Kachin Independence Army) re-flipped towards India recently [0] and had begun to ignore China [1] and rerouting rare earths and other goods to India [2] Meanwhile, China never cracked down against similar scams in Cambodia. Most notably, Prince Group remains unsanctioned in China and it's leadership are Mainland Chinese in origin. While pig butchering (along with opium and human trafficking and other organized crime activities) are a major reason behind Chinese involvement in Myanmar, ignoring the very real proxy war going on between Chinese and Indian interests in Myanmar fails to contextualize some of the decisions that both countries make within Myanmar. This also explains why you don't see a similar crackdown in Cambodia, which is solidly within the Chinese sphere at this point. [0] - https://www.stimson.org/2025/rare-earths-and-realpolitik-future-of-mediation-myanmar/ https://www.stimson.org/2025/rare-earths-and-realpolitik-fut... [1] - https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/ignoring-chinese-pressure-kia-seizes-myanmar-junta-allied-militia-outpost-in-kachin.html https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/ignorin... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/india-explores-rare-earth-deal-with-myanmar-rebels-after-chinese-curbs-2025-09-10/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/india-explores-rare-eart...
    - bobbiechen 1y ago
      That's interesting - I had seen some news articles reporting that some Chinese pig butchering scammers were encouraging others to target foreigners only, and exclude the mainland Chinese. Like this one: https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/chinas-acquiescence-to-myanmars-military-regime-fuels-foreigner-butchering-scam-epidemic/#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20Chinese%20scam,Kokang%20BGF%20leaders%20awaiting%20trial. https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/chinas-acquiescence-to... It's reminiscent of stories about Russian malware doing nothing on machines with Cyrillic keyboard layouts.
- xnx 1y ago
  The US is blowing up alleged drug boats and their crews so anything is possible.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  > The Cold War was a war running cold with the potential to go hot I'm not sure I buy that definition. I think most understand a Cold War to be simply a "war" done without weapons but by other means — via economic means, propaganda, etc.
  - ratelimitsteve 1y ago
    that stretches the definition of war to mean anything that benefits one state over another, though. that might be a valid definition, but if we're gonna have a real discussion we're gonna have to differentiate between that sort of war and the sort of war where people kill one another with weapons and agree from the start which one we're talking about.
PaywallBuster 1y ago
Direct link to the indictment https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/chairman-prince-group-indicted-operating-cambodian-forced-labor-scam-compounds-engaged https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/chairman-prince-group-i... Cambodia's specifically 30-50% of the economy can be directly attributed to scamming plus casinos This one of the other organizations / major bank used for money laundering directly linked to Hun Sen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huione_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huione_Group > The company is linked to Cambodia's ruling Hun family, which includes the current prime minister, Hun Manet.[4] His cousin Hun To is a major shareholder and director of Huione Pay
- yhager 1y ago
  > Cambodia's specifically 30-50% of the economy can be directly attributed to scamming plus casinos Are you saying that 30-50% of Cambodia's economy can be directly attributed to scamming and casinos? I find that shocking and hard to believe. Do you have a source for that statement?
  - senordevnyc 1y ago
    They don't have a source because it's total bullshit.
  - PaywallBuster 1y ago
    It's a small / under developed country the economy is not that big to start with :) GDP $49.8 Billion (nominal; 2025) Some examples https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/cambodia-report-reveals-alleged-complicit-in-transnational-crimes-between-powerful-officials-and-companies-and-deems-a-global-security-threat-incl-cos-comments/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/cambodia...
    - senordevnyc 1y ago
      Formal estimates range from $12.5 to $19 billion dollars per year, equivalent to as much as 60% of the country’s formal GDP Formal estimates by who? Given that the GDP is around $50B, these (unsourced) numbers don't even make sense.
rags2riches 1y ago
This makes me think of the Barbary Wars where piracy out of the Barbary states was a huge issue. There's also the connection with the slave trade then and the human trafficking for the scam centers now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars
- khuey 1y ago
  Makes me imagine a buddy cop comedy but it's the US and China teaming up to deal with the scammers in Burma.
- jowea 1y ago
  Also North Korea with its state sponsored internet privateering.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> the virtual cold war against the personal finances of foreign citizenry Comparing a scam to war is inaccurate. The Cold War was a war running cold with the potential to go hot. Cambodia and America are not going to war over this.

nicechianti 1y ago
[dead]
greenchair 1y ago
that's a pretty naive view of war. we are at war with many countries all the time, most of it is cold.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > we are at war with many countries all the time, most of it is cold Like whom? We (and let's be honest, every other great power) are at war with many countries all of the time, and while they may be cold for long stretches, they absolutely (a) go hot from time to time and (b) are constantly threatening to go hot.
- _carbyau_ 1y ago
  I this similar concept, differently. To me "war" is a state of "no rules" hurting. IE nuclear, biological, any weapon goes. Anything less is an exercise in restraint - even if still quite terrible in it's own right. Which means there are lots of "exercises" of varying lethality, risk profiles, spheres of influence, etc. And yes many countries are jockeying against other countries in varying ways. Large scale scams against other countries could be seen as an unintended (not a planned government action) exercise that is condoned by the government.
- jowea 1y ago
  Maybe we should call it "conflict", and include non-state actors.
  - h33t-l4x0r 1y ago
    Let's go with macro-aggressions and put trigger warnings on them
bobthepanda 1y ago
Interestingly enough, China is thought to have leaned on the scales in Myanmar’s civil conflict due to pig-butchering there. (Not only were they scamming Chinese, they were also human trafficking them to operate the scams.)
- alephnerd 1y ago
  China only began executing those pig-butcherers when the EAO that was providing protection to Chinese pig-butchering gangs in that region of Myanmar (Kachin Independence Army) re-flipped towards India recently [0] and had begun to ignore China [1] and rerouting rare earths and other goods to India [2] Meanwhile, China never cracked down against similar scams in Cambodia. Most notably, Prince Group remains unsanctioned in China and it's leadership are Mainland Chinese in origin. While pig butchering (along with opium and human trafficking and other organized crime activities) are a major reason behind Chinese involvement in Myanmar, ignoring the very real proxy war going on between Chinese and Indian interests in Myanmar fails to contextualize some of the decisions that both countries make within Myanmar. This also explains why you don't see a similar crackdown in Cambodia, which is solidly within the Chinese sphere at this point. [0] - https://www.stimson.org/2025/rare-earths-and-realpolitik-future-of-mediation-myanmar/ https://www.stimson.org/2025/rare-earths-and-realpolitik-fut... [1] - https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/ignoring-chinese-pressure-kia-seizes-myanmar-junta-allied-militia-outpost-in-kachin.html https://www.irrawaddy.com/news/war-against-the-junta/ignorin... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/china/india-explores-rare-earth-deal-with-myanmar-rebels-after-chinese-curbs-2025-09-10/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/india-explores-rare-eart...
  - bobbiechen 1y ago
    That's interesting - I had seen some news articles reporting that some Chinese pig butchering scammers were encouraging others to target foreigners only, and exclude the mainland Chinese. Like this one: https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/chinas-acquiescence-to-myanmars-military-regime-fuels-foreigner-butchering-scam-epidemic/#:~:text=As%20a%20result%2C%20Chinese%20scam,Kokang%20BGF%20leaders%20awaiting%20trial. https://globalinitiative.net/analysis/chinas-acquiescence-to... It's reminiscent of stories about Russian malware doing nothing on machines with Cyrillic keyboard layouts.
xnx 1y ago
The US is blowing up alleged drug boats and their crews so anything is possible.
JKCalhoun 1y ago
> The Cold War was a war running cold with the potential to go hot I'm not sure I buy that definition. I think most understand a Cold War to be simply a "war" done without weapons but by other means — via economic means, propaganda, etc.
- ratelimitsteve 1y ago
  that stretches the definition of war to mean anything that benefits one state over another, though. that might be a valid definition, but if we're gonna have a real discussion we're gonna have to differentiate between that sort of war and the sort of war where people kill one another with weapons and agree from the start which one we're talking about.

PaywallBuster 1y ago

Direct link to the indictment https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/chairman-prince-group-indicted-operating-cambodian-forced-labor-scam-compounds-engaged https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/chairman-prince-group-i... Cambodia's specifically 30-50% of the economy can be directly attributed to scamming plus casinos This one of the other organizations / major bank used for money laundering directly linked to Hun Sen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huione_Group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huione_Group > The company is linked to Cambodia's ruling Hun family, which includes the current prime minister, Hun Manet.[4] His cousin Hun To is a major shareholder and director of Huione Pay

yhager 1y ago
> Cambodia's specifically 30-50% of the economy can be directly attributed to scamming plus casinos Are you saying that 30-50% of Cambodia's economy can be directly attributed to scamming and casinos? I find that shocking and hard to believe. Do you have a source for that statement?
- senordevnyc 1y ago
  They don't have a source because it's total bullshit.
- PaywallBuster 1y ago
  It's a small / under developed country the economy is not that big to start with :) GDP $49.8 Billion (nominal; 2025) Some examples https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/cambodia-report-reveals-alleged-complicit-in-transnational-crimes-between-powerful-officials-and-companies-and-deems-a-global-security-threat-incl-cos-comments/ https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/cambodia...
  - senordevnyc 1y ago
    Formal estimates range from $12.5 to $19 billion dollars per year, equivalent to as much as 60% of the country’s formal GDP Formal estimates by who? Given that the GDP is around $50B, these (unsourced) numbers don't even make sense.

rags2riches 1y ago

This makes me think of the Barbary Wars where piracy out of the Barbary states was a huge issue. There's also the connection with the slave trade then and the human trafficking for the scam centers now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_Wars

khuey 1y ago
Makes me imagine a buddy cop comedy but it's the US and China teaming up to deal with the scammers in Burma.
jowea 1y ago
Also North Korea with its state sponsored internet privateering.