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I think it is a side note on the charter schools issue. The main driver is terrible standards and discipline in public schools. There is a reason atheists are p

I think it is a side note on the charter schools issue. The main driver is terrible standards and discipline in public schools. There is a reason atheists are putting their kids in charter schools too, and even religious schools.

consumer451 1y ago
I hear you, solid point looking at the current state of public education. The next question is: why is our public education system so lacking? My recollection is that ever since science started to counter strict religious teachings, a significant portion of the country stopped trying to improve the public education system, and instead began to undermine it.
- s1artibartfast 1y ago
  IMO it started with no child left behind, and a wave of public sentiment and legal precedent that places the worst performing and behaving students above the majority. I have a teacher friends who have to deal with students attacking them. One had a student break their hand and they could not suspend or expell them. Imagine trying to teach a class under such conditions.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > it started with no child left behind FTA: "As controversial as it was, No Child Left Behind coincided with increased school performance, especially for those at the bottom."
    - s1artibartfast 1y ago
      That is not mutually exclusive. First, you can absolutely sacrifice the median to improve the average. Second, I was pointing out when I think it started. One hypothesis is that the negative impacts of no child left behind and similar programs were initially mitigated/compartmentalized by the heavy academic tracking used at the time. My understanding is that much of this has changed over time with a reduction in number of tracks.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > ever since science started to counter strict religious teachings, a significant portion of the country stopped trying to improve the public education The Scopes Monkey trial was in 1925 [1]. The issue has been divisive for longer than American public education started failing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_trial
  - consumer451 1y ago
    Sure, but look at this chart. It took a few generations for it to really take effect. https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/q7gqms/usa_religious_preference_trends_over_70_years_oc/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/q7gqms/usa...

consumer451 1y ago

I hear you, solid point looking at the current state of public education. The next question is: why is our public education system so lacking? My recollection is that ever since science started to counter strict religious teachings, a significant portion of the country stopped trying to improve the public education system, and instead began to undermine it.

s1artibartfast 1y ago
IMO it started with no child left behind, and a wave of public sentiment and legal precedent that places the worst performing and behaving students above the majority. I have a teacher friends who have to deal with students attacking them. One had a student break their hand and they could not suspend or expell them. Imagine trying to teach a class under such conditions.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > it started with no child left behind FTA: "As controversial as it was, No Child Left Behind coincided with increased school performance, especially for those at the bottom."
  - s1artibartfast 1y ago
    That is not mutually exclusive. First, you can absolutely sacrifice the median to improve the average. Second, I was pointing out when I think it started. One hypothesis is that the negative impacts of no child left behind and similar programs were initially mitigated/compartmentalized by the heavy academic tracking used at the time. My understanding is that much of this has changed over time with a reduction in number of tracks.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> ever since science started to counter strict religious teachings, a significant portion of the country stopped trying to improve the public education The Scopes Monkey trial was in 1925 [1]. The issue has been divisive for longer than American public education started failing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_trial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scopes_trial
- consumer451 1y ago
  Sure, but look at this chart. It took a few generations for it to really take effect. https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/q7gqms/usa_religious_preference_trends_over_70_years_oc/ https://old.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/q7gqms/usa...