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I’ve been doing this a long while, but I’m finding it harder as more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even kno

I’ve been doing this a long while, but I’m finding it harder as more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge. I recently moved into a new home and decided to take the opportunity to replace everything; it’s been surprising how many things are just coming to life. TVs, vacuums, kitchen appliances, etc. Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. It’s quite ridiculous the world we’re creating for ourselves.

cptskippy 1y ago
> Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. What brand?
- conductr 1y ago
  Samsung
mcv 1y ago
I'm amazed this is so common. I don't think any of my household appliances require wifi access. Our PC, laptops, phones, tablets and printer do, of course. I do occasionally check which devices are connected to my wifi, and try to keep track of what's what, but there are always a few mysterious devices I don't recognise, so I block those just to see what stops working.
baobun 1y ago
> more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge Do you have any specific examples of a product doing this?
- conductr 1y ago
  Yeah - day -1 in new house, get internet. ATT modem, tech has me scan a QR code to login to this WiFi via my iPhone. (I have a mesh network but hadn’t moved belongings, this was just making sure service was working.) Couple days later, we had moved belongings and setup an old dumb TV for my kid. I was a bit surprised when then Apple TV had the WiFi credentials but I was busy moving and just shrugged it off. Couple days later, I replaced the old dumb TV with a new Samsung. It had connectivity too, without doing anything specific. This isn’t my first smart TV but I never give any TV my WiFi and instead always use the Apple TV devices. So was a little more shocked on this one but thought I’ll figure it out when I setup my mesh. Over the next few days, the JennAir appliances showed signs of connectivity. I wasn’t sure how. Hadn’t intended on giving them any Internet access. Don’t really care about having a smart oven. About 2 weeks later, I get around to setting up the mesh. Start going device by device and having it forget the ATT routers Wi-Fi. None of the devices know my mesh info, so set them up individually. I need to just disable the ATT routers Wi-Fi network, haven’t yet. I’m not really a networking guru. I just never had this happen before. I think I either accidentally allowed my phone to share the information or it’s possible my wife did. I had never used QR to login, so maybe that exposed something.
crazygringo 1y ago
> but I’m finding it harder as more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other Sorry, what? That's not a documented thing. There are limited ways in which you can share credentials (like between iPhones), and there have been some weird things in the past related to sharing with friends' accounts (the controversial Windows 10 Wi-Fi Sense in 2015), but your consumer devices aren't just sharing Wi-Fi credentials with each other. There isn't even a protocol for that kind of automatic discovery. As for the microphone on the remote, you need to enable Wi-Fi on the TV so it can perform voice recognition on remote servers. The TV doesn't have the chips/software to do voice recognition. So that makes complete sense.
- conductr 1y ago
  I’m using an Apple TV that is connected. My prior setup, with a newish but unconnected Sony Bravo, the remote just passed mic audio data to the Apple TV as if I was using the Apple TV remote Also, pretty sure it’s undocumented, but I’ve been on a handful of reddits and HN conversations in the past where people are all experiencing this. I think a simplified theory is that they broadcast the WiFi credentials over Bluetooth and other unconnected devices can then get online. I remember one discussion of this theory where the guy found out his TV had connected to his neighbors WiFi somehow and this was a theory in the thread. It’s foil hat type stuff but very believable if you’ve experienced having devices know your WiFi despite having never granting it. Another theory is similar where the unconnected devices send the connected device data to relay. This would allow the unconnected device to remain stealth, as it wouldn’t appear in your WiFi logs. There’s even a deeper level theory on this one where devices (particularly cheap Chinese toys and gadgets) come preloaded to exploit common vulnerabilities in other devices to establish this relay. Imagine a smart oven or fridge where the manufacturer has no incentive to keep up the firmware for security purposes. So now you have a baby monitor sending data to China through your air fryer’s WiFi connection.
  - crazygringo 1y ago
    Those are indeed tinfoil hat theories. There's no protocol for that over Bluetooth. One could be created, but it hasn't been yet. Nor for relaying data. These don't exist. Like, there are limited relays like what iPhones do for AirTags, but not for a vacuum cleaner to transfer data via your fridge to your neighbor's open WiFi. In every case where someone's TV has mysteriously connected to a neighbor's WiFi, it's kids or the babysitter or someone else who actively tried to connect to watch a show.

cptskippy 1y ago

> Some of my new TVs won’t even let me use the microphone on the remote until I give it my WiFi password. What brand?

conductr 1y ago
Samsung

mcv 1y ago

I'm amazed this is so common. I don't think any of my household appliances require wifi access. Our PC, laptops, phones, tablets and printer do, of course. I do occasionally check which devices are connected to my wifi, and try to keep track of what's what, but there are always a few mysterious devices I don't recognise, so I block those just to see what stops working.

baobun 1y ago

> more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other without my permission/consent/or even knowledge Do you have any specific examples of a product doing this?

conductr 1y ago
Yeah - day -1 in new house, get internet. ATT modem, tech has me scan a QR code to login to this WiFi via my iPhone. (I have a mesh network but hadn’t moved belongings, this was just making sure service was working.) Couple days later, we had moved belongings and setup an old dumb TV for my kid. I was a bit surprised when then Apple TV had the WiFi credentials but I was busy moving and just shrugged it off. Couple days later, I replaced the old dumb TV with a new Samsung. It had connectivity too, without doing anything specific. This isn’t my first smart TV but I never give any TV my WiFi and instead always use the Apple TV devices. So was a little more shocked on this one but thought I’ll figure it out when I setup my mesh. Over the next few days, the JennAir appliances showed signs of connectivity. I wasn’t sure how. Hadn’t intended on giving them any Internet access. Don’t really care about having a smart oven. About 2 weeks later, I get around to setting up the mesh. Start going device by device and having it forget the ATT routers Wi-Fi. None of the devices know my mesh info, so set them up individually. I need to just disable the ATT routers Wi-Fi network, haven’t yet. I’m not really a networking guru. I just never had this happen before. I think I either accidentally allowed my phone to share the information or it’s possible my wife did. I had never used QR to login, so maybe that exposed something.

crazygringo 1y ago

> but I’m finding it harder as more devices share my WiFi credentials with each other Sorry, what? That's not a documented thing. There are limited ways in which you can share credentials (like between iPhones), and there have been some weird things in the past related to sharing with friends' accounts (the controversial Windows 10 Wi-Fi Sense in 2015), but your consumer devices aren't just sharing Wi-Fi credentials with each other. There isn't even a protocol for that kind of automatic discovery. As for the microphone on the remote, you need to enable Wi-Fi on the TV so it can perform voice recognition on remote servers. The TV doesn't have the chips/software to do voice recognition. So that makes complete sense.

conductr 1y ago
I’m using an Apple TV that is connected. My prior setup, with a newish but unconnected Sony Bravo, the remote just passed mic audio data to the Apple TV as if I was using the Apple TV remote Also, pretty sure it’s undocumented, but I’ve been on a handful of reddits and HN conversations in the past where people are all experiencing this. I think a simplified theory is that they broadcast the WiFi credentials over Bluetooth and other unconnected devices can then get online. I remember one discussion of this theory where the guy found out his TV had connected to his neighbors WiFi somehow and this was a theory in the thread. It’s foil hat type stuff but very believable if you’ve experienced having devices know your WiFi despite having never granting it. Another theory is similar where the unconnected devices send the connected device data to relay. This would allow the unconnected device to remain stealth, as it wouldn’t appear in your WiFi logs. There’s even a deeper level theory on this one where devices (particularly cheap Chinese toys and gadgets) come preloaded to exploit common vulnerabilities in other devices to establish this relay. Imagine a smart oven or fridge where the manufacturer has no incentive to keep up the firmware for security purposes. So now you have a baby monitor sending data to China through your air fryer’s WiFi connection.
- crazygringo 1y ago
  Those are indeed tinfoil hat theories. There's no protocol for that over Bluetooth. One could be created, but it hasn't been yet. Nor for relaying data. These don't exist. Like, there are limited relays like what iPhones do for AirTags, but not for a vacuum cleaner to transfer data via your fridge to your neighbor's open WiFi. In every case where someone's TV has mysteriously connected to a neighbor's WiFi, it's kids or the babysitter or someone else who actively tried to connect to watch a show.