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You're using different words - the top comment only mentioned the reliability of the software, which is only tangentially related to the quality, goodness, or b

You're using different words - the top comment only mentioned the reliability of the software, which is only tangentially related to the quality, goodness, or badness of the code used to write it. Old software is typically more reliable, not because the developers were better or the software engineering targeted a higher reliability metric, but because it's been tested in the real world for years. Even more so if you consider a known bug to be "reliable" behavior: "Sure, it crashes when you enter an apostrophe in the name field, but everyone knows that, there's a sticky note taped to the receptionist's monitor so the new girl doesn't forget." Maybe the new software has a more comprehensive automated testing framework - maybe it simply has tests, where the old software had none - but regardless of how accurate you make your mock objects, decades of end-to-end testing in the real world is hard to replace. As an industrial controls engineer, when I walk up to a machine that's 30 years old but isn't working anymore, I'm looking for failed mechanical components. Some switch is worn out, a cable got crushed, a bearing is failing...it's not the code's fault. It's not even the CMOS battery failing and dropping memory this time, because we've had that problem 4 times already, we recognize it and have a procedure to prevent it happening again. The code didn't change spontaneously, it's solved the business problem for decades... Conversely, when I walk up to a newly commissioned machine that's only been on the floor for a month, the problem is probably something that hasn't ever been tried before and was missed in the test procedure.

freetime2 1y ago
Yup, I have worked on several legacy codebases, and a pretty common occurence is that a new team member will join and think they may have discovered a bug in the code. Sometimes they are even quite adamant that the code is complete garbage and could never have worked properly. Usually the conversation goes something like: "This code is heavily used in production, and hasn't been touched in 10 years. If it's broken, then why haven't we had any complaints from users?" And more often than not the issue is a local configuration issue, bad test data, a misunderstanding of what the code is supposed to do, not being aware of some alternate execution path or other pre/post processing that is running, some known issue that we've decided not to fix for some reason, etc. (And of course sometimes we do actually discover a completely new bug, but it's rare). To be clear, there are certainly code quality issues present that make modifications to the code costly and risky. But the code itself is quite reliable, as most bugs have been found and fixed over the years. And a lot of the messy bits in the code are actually important usability enhancements that get bolted on after the fact in response to real-world user feedback.
giancarlostoro 1y ago
Old software is not always more reliable though, which is my point. We can all think of really old still maintained software that is awful and unreliable. Maybe I'm just unlucky and get hired at places riddled with low quality software? I don't know, but I do know nobody I've ever worked with is ever surprised, only the junior developers. Reality is management is often misaligned with proper software engineering craftsmanship at every org I've worked at except one, and that was because the top director who oversaw all of us was also a developer and he let our team lead direct us whichever way he wanted us to.

freetime2 1y ago

Yup, I have worked on several legacy codebases, and a pretty common occurence is that a new team member will join and think they may have discovered a bug in the code. Sometimes they are even quite adamant that the code is complete garbage and could never have worked properly. Usually the conversation goes something like: "This code is heavily used in production, and hasn't been touched in 10 years. If it's broken, then why haven't we had any complaints from users?" And more often than not the issue is a local configuration issue, bad test data, a misunderstanding of what the code is supposed to do, not being aware of some alternate execution path or other pre/post processing that is running, some known issue that we've decided not to fix for some reason, etc. (And of course sometimes we do actually discover a completely new bug, but it's rare). To be clear, there are certainly code quality issues present that make modifications to the code costly and risky. But the code itself is quite reliable, as most bugs have been found and fixed over the years. And a lot of the messy bits in the code are actually important usability enhancements that get bolted on after the fact in response to real-world user feedback.

giancarlostoro 1y ago

Old software is not always more reliable though, which is my point. We can all think of really old still maintained software that is awful and unreliable. Maybe I'm just unlucky and get hired at places riddled with low quality software? I don't know, but I do know nobody I've ever worked with is ever surprised, only the junior developers. Reality is management is often misaligned with proper software engineering craftsmanship at every org I've worked at except one, and that was because the top director who oversaw all of us was also a developer and he let our team lead direct us whichever way he wanted us to.