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How meaningful is that approval statistics in a country where the government can put people in prison more or less arbitrarily without any kind of habeas corpus

How meaningful is that approval statistics in a country where the government can put people in prison more or less arbitrarily without any kind of habeas corpus protections?

gjsman-1000 1y ago
Before the government suspended it; the murder rate was nearly the highest in the world, and every attempt previously failed. Freedoms sometimes break down at scale given the right conditions. That's not comfortable to contemplate. If even 20% of people were involved in the gang and using GrapheneOS, you bet that freedom would be revoked. There is no guarantee in natural law that freedom is self-sustaining or chaos-resistant. Freedom is the privilege of a stable nation that can hopefully stay stable, but freedom does not guarantee stability. Thus why we have outliers like Singapore - very stable, minimal freedom; and outliers like El Salvador previously - very free, very unstable. Stable always beats free, because unstable makes freedom a purely academic exercise in nonsense (sure, the government might not arrest you for saying something, but the local thug will happily do worse; bragging "I have habeas corpus" is idiotic when the local drug lord is your problem and he doesn't honor it).
- estearum 1y ago
  The murder rate was falling for years prior to Bukele’s election Obviously extremely “generous” policies for jailing people involved with or adjacent to crime will reduce crime further, but he’s not singularly responsible for improvements and it’s not clear at all where the cost-benefit will net out North Korea also has very low crime rates, I hear!
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> How meaningful is that approval statistics in a country where the government can put people in prison more or less arbitrarily without any kind of habeas corpus protections? There is diverse polling to support Bukele’s popularity [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_Nayib_Bukele_presidency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_Nayib_B...

How meaningful is that approval statistics in a country where the government can put people in prison more or less arbitrarily without any kind of habeas corpus protections?

gjsman-1000 1y ago

Before the government suspended it; the murder rate was nearly the highest in the world, and every attempt previously failed. Freedoms sometimes break down at scale given the right conditions. That's not comfortable to contemplate. If even 20% of people were involved in the gang and using GrapheneOS, you bet that freedom would be revoked. There is no guarantee in natural law that freedom is self-sustaining or chaos-resistant. Freedom is the privilege of a stable nation that can hopefully stay stable, but freedom does not guarantee stability. Thus why we have outliers like Singapore - very stable, minimal freedom; and outliers like El Salvador previously - very free, very unstable. Stable always beats free, because unstable makes freedom a purely academic exercise in nonsense (sure, the government might not arrest you for saying something, but the local thug will happily do worse; bragging "I have habeas corpus" is idiotic when the local drug lord is your problem and he doesn't honor it).

estearum 1y ago
The murder rate was falling for years prior to Bukele’s election Obviously extremely “generous” policies for jailing people involved with or adjacent to crime will reduce crime further, but he’s not singularly responsible for improvements and it’s not clear at all where the cost-benefit will net out North Korea also has very low crime rates, I hear!

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> How meaningful is that approval statistics in a country where the government can put people in prison more or less arbitrarily without any kind of habeas corpus protections? There is diverse polling to support Bukele’s popularity [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_Nayib_Bukele_presidency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_the_Nayib_B...