4 ms·

I wonder if it's possible to correct for the effects of time to see what it originally looked like

AlotOfReading 1y ago
Archaeologists generally aren't that computer-savvy. I haven't seen any indications of paint residues on the pillars, but we know that many of the statues in these enclosures were also painted bright colors that would be missed by a digital reconstruction.
- card_zero 1y ago
  What pigments did they have 12 thousand years ago? Only ochre, surely? So rusty red, dirty yellow, nothing else? (Oh, soot black, too.) I'd be interested if there was anything else. I see the boar statue is painted inside its mouth ... with red ochre.
  - AlotOfReading 1y ago
    The boar was painted with red inside the mouth, and black/white on the hide. Black in the ancient Near East was usually bitumen, though later groups like the Egyptians would switch to manganese dioxide. White was plaster. They also had yellow ochre.
    - card_zero 1y ago
      The boar's arms are long and skinny and curved, and kind of loosely attached. This culture's art style had a consistent theme of noodle-arms.
- bee_rider 1y ago
  > Archaeologists generally aren't that computer-savvy. Why throw interdisciplinary shade? > I haven't seen any indications of paint residues on the pillars, but we know that many of the statues in these enclosures were also painted bright colors that would be missed by a digital reconstruction. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? If there’s no indication of paint residues, they can look for other clues of course. But, without any other evidence, what’s the alternative, right? Guessing would be bad, don’t want to mislead people.
  - AlotOfReading 1y ago
    It's not interdisciplinary. I'm an archaeologist, albeit not practicing these days. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? Yes, but the point is that we don't know a lot of the context around these layer III T-pillars to make informed choices in depicting them. For clarification, I'm using the GT stratigraphy because I haven't looked up the KT chart. But just to highlight some knowledge gaps, it's usually not clear what damage was caused during the backfill process, what the exposure conditions for these pillars were during their lifetimes (e.g. roof or not, though these earlier rectangular rooms are generally agreed to have covered with wooden beams), and even the dating is a bit suspect in this area. Plus, the relevant team may not even have a LIDAR scanner to do that properly as that's fairly specialist equipment. Etc. Getting to the point where it's possible and reasonable isn't easy.
    - thebruce87m 1y ago
      > Plus, the relevant team may not even have a LIDAR scanner to do that properly as that's fairly specialist equipment. There’s a good chance you have a LiDAR Scanner in your pocket right now.
      - AlotOfReading 1y ago
        iPhone LIDARs don't have enough resolution for this and they work a lot better inside than outside. There's also an interesting point about phone use in the field. It's surprisingly difficult. I haven't played around with lidar apps because my (personal) phone choice doesn't have the relevant hardware, but I wouldn't take it for granted that they work offline or there's app store access to install them.

Archaeologists generally aren't that computer-savvy. I haven't seen any indications of paint residues on the pillars, but we know that many of the statues in these enclosures were also painted bright colors that would be missed by a digital reconstruction.

card_zero 1y ago
What pigments did they have 12 thousand years ago? Only ochre, surely? So rusty red, dirty yellow, nothing else? (Oh, soot black, too.) I'd be interested if there was anything else. I see the boar statue is painted inside its mouth ... with red ochre.
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  The boar was painted with red inside the mouth, and black/white on the hide. Black in the ancient Near East was usually bitumen, though later groups like the Egyptians would switch to manganese dioxide. White was plaster. They also had yellow ochre.
  - card_zero 1y ago
    The boar's arms are long and skinny and curved, and kind of loosely attached. This culture's art style had a consistent theme of noodle-arms.
bee_rider 1y ago
> Archaeologists generally aren't that computer-savvy. Why throw interdisciplinary shade? > I haven't seen any indications of paint residues on the pillars, but we know that many of the statues in these enclosures were also painted bright colors that would be missed by a digital reconstruction. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? If there’s no indication of paint residues, they can look for other clues of course. But, without any other evidence, what’s the alternative, right? Guessing would be bad, don’t want to mislead people.
- AlotOfReading 1y ago
  It's not interdisciplinary. I'm an archaeologist, albeit not practicing these days. Wouldn’t a digital reconstruction just have whatever textures were selected? Yes, but the point is that we don't know a lot of the context around these layer III T-pillars to make informed choices in depicting them. For clarification, I'm using the GT stratigraphy because I haven't looked up the KT chart. But just to highlight some knowledge gaps, it's usually not clear what damage was caused during the backfill process, what the exposure conditions for these pillars were during their lifetimes (e.g. roof or not, though these earlier rectangular rooms are generally agreed to have covered with wooden beams), and even the dating is a bit suspect in this area. Plus, the relevant team may not even have a LIDAR scanner to do that properly as that's fairly specialist equipment. Etc. Getting to the point where it's possible and reasonable isn't easy.
  - thebruce87m 1y ago
    > Plus, the relevant team may not even have a LIDAR scanner to do that properly as that's fairly specialist equipment. There’s a good chance you have a LiDAR Scanner in your pocket right now.
    - AlotOfReading 1y ago
      iPhone LIDARs don't have enough resolution for this and they work a lot better inside than outside. There's also an interesting point about phone use in the field. It's surprisingly difficult. I haven't played around with lidar apps because my (personal) phone choice doesn't have the relevant hardware, but I wouldn't take it for granted that they work offline or there's app store access to install them.