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He does, but before that happens, the legitimate medical community needs to look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened, why they lost some amount of trust,

He does, but before that happens, the legitimate medical community needs to look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened, why they lost some amount of trust, and look to remedying that. Someone else in this thread pointed out their role in the opioid epidemic. The replication crisis is a growing concern. I'm sure there are more out there.

alphabettsy 1y ago
I think that’s true and I’m not going to make excuses for the mistakes of the medical community, but I don’t think we should excuse the influence of what is now the wellness community, of which RFK Jr. is a part.
- fallinghawks 1y ago
  The administration's sowing of distrust in medical community also played a big part. Recommendations of useless and/or unproven remedies as "cures," claims of big pharma driving the decisions, and hyping up the changes in CDC's recommendations as waffling, have legitimized distrust of medicine.
gruez 1y ago
>He does, but before that happens, the legitimate medical community needs to look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened, why they lost some amount of trust, and look to remedying that. Okay but surely we can agree that the appropriate response to "legitimate medical community"'s failings shouldn't be RFK, nor should opposition to RFK be conditional on "look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened ..."? I agree such reflection should happen, but the "but before that happens ..." wording is bizarre. It's like having some domestic terrorist kill a CEO, and then responding to that with "before we can stop domestic terrorism, corporate america must look in the mirror about how it failed rural white blue collar workers in appalachia or whatever"
- dehrmann 1y ago
  He wasn't elected, but sometimes (spiritual) protest votes win. If Harris had won and appointed a conventional secretary, it would have been a status quo that people haven't been happy with. > but the "but before that happens ..." wording is bizarre Biden was very much a status quo president who didn't do much to fix underlying problems. The result was the protest vote winning again.
  - alphabettsy 1y ago
    Status quo is preferable to regression and destruction in my view. Building things takes time, destruction does not. The protest vote was in favor of destruction. I don’t think Biden was status quo so much as he led a deliberate and traditional administration.
    - Gud 1y ago
      I think most people who voted Trump back into office expected him to do pretty much the same thing he did his first term: yap yap yap, play golf and some other nonsense. In my opinion, 2nd term Trump is at least 10x worse than the first term.
      - iJohnDoe 1y ago
        Agreed. Also, this is usually the case with any president because they are only focused on doing doing things in their first term that will get them reelected. Then all bets are off on the second term because who cares about ratings.
- thisisit 1y ago
  Given that people seem to have forgotten the fact "two wrongs doesn't make one right" and whataboutism going mainstream, all answers are going "but what about "mainstream" x". X can be everything from media to medicine in this case.
notmyjob 1y ago
Benzos too! Look what happened to Peterson.
- emchammer 1y ago
  And he went to Russia to get treated for that.
  - notmyjob 1y ago
    Russian scientists and doctors are not Putin. I don’t think we should conflate Russian citizens with Putin or Prickosian.
swed420 1y ago
> He does, but before that happens, the legitimate medical community needs to look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened, why they lost some amount of trust, and look to remedying that. Agreed. Furthermore, the CDC under both parties of capital interests has blood on their hands from the blatant COVID mishandling under multiple administrations, among other things: https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/how-the-press-manufactured-consent https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/how-the-press-manufactured-co... Until the root causes of this rot are targeted, symptoms like rotating-villain RFK Jrs are going to keep grabbing headlines while societal conditions continue to deteriorate.
- BubbleRings 1y ago
  Wow, thank you for this link! TheGauntlet.news here has several well-written articles about what went wrong with the US’s response to COVID. It’s like someone swept their arm across the kitchen table, tossing of all the junk, and said “let’s just lay out everything we know about how COVID went/is going, but only put down the science based and common sense stuff.” I was trying to convince people to use real masks instead of surgical masks since basically day 1. I understand that at first there was a shortage of N95s, but not for that long. I totally agree with the article that it quickly became “I don’t wanna”. But I never thought fully about what it would have been like, to be a parent that HAD to take a sick child to the hospital for treatment unrelated to Covid, and see lots of doctors and nurses wearing surgical masks when they could have been wearing 95s. That would have been infuriating. And one of the articles also had great info on the fallacy that “getting COVID multiple times is good for children’s immune systems” type messages. It is becoming clear that is not true at all. Really great, critically important journalism there!
rbartelme 1y ago
>The replication crisis is a growing concern. This! The amount of clinicians I know who simply read the abstract of a case study, with no real statistical interpretation of results, is a non-zero number. Whenever I see some hyped up popular press article about a scientific study, my immediate reaction is to go to the primary literature. First, I read the study design and analysis methods, then I determine if its even worth continuing to read the rest. Study pre-registration should be a must and papers need to be more explicit about being exploratory when the sample size dictates it.
cosmicgadget 1y ago
> before that happens Keep RFK in place until the entire health sector completes an excercise in introspection?
michaelbarton 1y ago
There is already a lot of research into this, and as with most things there no one size fits all answer. “ Along with being more educated and reporting poorer health status, the majority of alternative medicine users appear to be doing so not so much as a result of being dissatisfied with conventional medicine but largely because they find these health care alternatives to be more congruent with their own values, beliefs, and philosophical orientations toward health and life.” https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/187543 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/187543
MattPalmer1086 1y ago
He happened because he was appointed by Trump. Are you claiming that his appointment was due to widespread disillusionment with medicine based on science?
JojoFatsani 1y ago
Whataboutism

alphabettsy 1y ago

I think that’s true and I’m not going to make excuses for the mistakes of the medical community, but I don’t think we should excuse the influence of what is now the wellness community, of which RFK Jr. is a part.

fallinghawks 1y ago
The administration's sowing of distrust in medical community also played a big part. Recommendations of useless and/or unproven remedies as "cures," claims of big pharma driving the decisions, and hyping up the changes in CDC's recommendations as waffling, have legitimized distrust of medicine.

gruez 1y ago

>He does, but before that happens, the legitimate medical community needs to look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened, why they lost some amount of trust, and look to remedying that. Okay but surely we can agree that the appropriate response to "legitimate medical community"'s failings shouldn't be RFK, nor should opposition to RFK be conditional on "look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened ..."? I agree such reflection should happen, but the "but before that happens ..." wording is bizarre. It's like having some domestic terrorist kill a CEO, and then responding to that with "before we can stop domestic terrorism, corporate america must look in the mirror about how it failed rural white blue collar workers in appalachia or whatever"

dehrmann 1y ago
He wasn't elected, but sometimes (spiritual) protest votes win. If Harris had won and appointed a conventional secretary, it would have been a status quo that people haven't been happy with. > but the "but before that happens ..." wording is bizarre Biden was very much a status quo president who didn't do much to fix underlying problems. The result was the protest vote winning again.
- alphabettsy 1y ago
  Status quo is preferable to regression and destruction in my view. Building things takes time, destruction does not. The protest vote was in favor of destruction. I don’t think Biden was status quo so much as he led a deliberate and traditional administration.
  - Gud 1y ago
    I think most people who voted Trump back into office expected him to do pretty much the same thing he did his first term: yap yap yap, play golf and some other nonsense. In my opinion, 2nd term Trump is at least 10x worse than the first term.
    - iJohnDoe 1y ago
      Agreed. Also, this is usually the case with any president because they are only focused on doing doing things in their first term that will get them reelected. Then all bets are off on the second term because who cares about ratings.
thisisit 1y ago
Given that people seem to have forgotten the fact "two wrongs doesn't make one right" and whataboutism going mainstream, all answers are going "but what about "mainstream" x". X can be everything from media to medicine in this case.

notmyjob 1y ago

Benzos too! Look what happened to Peterson.

emchammer 1y ago
And he went to Russia to get treated for that.
- notmyjob 1y ago
  Russian scientists and doctors are not Putin. I don’t think we should conflate Russian citizens with Putin or Prickosian.

swed420 1y ago

> He does, but before that happens, the legitimate medical community needs to look in the mirror, reflect on how he happened, why they lost some amount of trust, and look to remedying that. Agreed. Furthermore, the CDC under both parties of capital interests has blood on their hands from the blatant COVID mishandling under multiple administrations, among other things: https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/how-the-press-manufactured-consent https://www.thegauntlet.news/p/how-the-press-manufactured-co... Until the root causes of this rot are targeted, symptoms like rotating-villain RFK Jrs are going to keep grabbing headlines while societal conditions continue to deteriorate.

BubbleRings 1y ago
Wow, thank you for this link! TheGauntlet.news here has several well-written articles about what went wrong with the US’s response to COVID. It’s like someone swept their arm across the kitchen table, tossing of all the junk, and said “let’s just lay out everything we know about how COVID went/is going, but only put down the science based and common sense stuff.” I was trying to convince people to use real masks instead of surgical masks since basically day 1. I understand that at first there was a shortage of N95s, but not for that long. I totally agree with the article that it quickly became “I don’t wanna”. But I never thought fully about what it would have been like, to be a parent that HAD to take a sick child to the hospital for treatment unrelated to Covid, and see lots of doctors and nurses wearing surgical masks when they could have been wearing 95s. That would have been infuriating. And one of the articles also had great info on the fallacy that “getting COVID multiple times is good for children’s immune systems” type messages. It is becoming clear that is not true at all. Really great, critically important journalism there!

rbartelme 1y ago

>The replication crisis is a growing concern. This! The amount of clinicians I know who simply read the abstract of a case study, with no real statistical interpretation of results, is a non-zero number. Whenever I see some hyped up popular press article about a scientific study, my immediate reaction is to go to the primary literature. First, I read the study design and analysis methods, then I determine if its even worth continuing to read the rest. Study pre-registration should be a must and papers need to be more explicit about being exploratory when the sample size dictates it.

cosmicgadget 1y ago

> before that happens Keep RFK in place until the entire health sector completes an excercise in introspection?

michaelbarton 1y ago

There is already a lot of research into this, and as with most things there no one size fits all answer. “ Along with being more educated and reporting poorer health status, the majority of alternative medicine users appear to be doing so not so much as a result of being dissatisfied with conventional medicine but largely because they find these health care alternatives to be more congruent with their own values, beliefs, and philosophical orientations toward health and life.” https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/187543 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/187543

MattPalmer1086 1y ago

He happened because he was appointed by Trump. Are you claiming that his appointment was due to widespread disillusionment with medicine based on science?

JojoFatsani 1y ago

Whataboutism