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I don't think that's true, I remember playing both Jak and Daxter and Ico in either 2000 or 2001 and I think both of those had camera control with the right-han

I don't think that's true, I remember playing both Jak and Daxter and Ico in either 2000 or 2001 and I think both of those had camera control with the right-hand analog stick.

cubefox 1y ago
This one says camera rotation for Jak and Daxter is mapped on the R/L buttons: https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls But Ico indeed used the stick for the camera: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls However, I'm not sure whether it was only used for horizontal rotation or full arbitrary rotation (arbitrary combinations of horizontal and vertical) as in Super Mario Sunshine. But it might very well be the first game to have that, not Mario Sunshine.
- ChoGGi 1y ago
  Turok from 1997 let you use the dpad for movement and stick to look/aim. Edit: Oh, sorry didn't see you mention third person.
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  > This one says camera rotation for Jak and Daxter is mapped on the R/L buttons: https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls Seems wrong too, archived manual (https://archive.org/details/ps2_Jak_and_Daxter-_The_Precursor_Legacy_USA/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/ps2_Jak_and_Daxter-_The_Precurso...) seems to say "RIGHT ANALOG STICK ... Camera Rotate/Zoom" under the game controls. I think the page you linked to is for another game.
  - cubefox 1y ago
    I just looked at a few videos and it seems that the analog stick does indeed move the camera, though apparently only horizontally, not "freely" with arbitrary rotations. I'm not sure though.
    - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
      How is that different from Super Mario Sunshine? It was probably two decades ago I last played it, but I think it was the same.
      - cubefox 1y ago
        No there you can do arbitrary camera rotations, not just horizontal ones. For example, you can view the character from above.
        CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
        Now you made me unsure, so skimmed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrsWUmiayLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrsWUmiayLM for a bit, which seems to me to confirm it's just horizontal camera movement. But there seems to be a zoom in/out functionality, which would move the camera in/out+vertically, but that's different than rotating around the character freely. The camera also does a ton of vertical movements by itself too, as Mario jumps/falls.
        cubefox 1y ago
        Yeah, I think you are actually right. I must have misremembered it. This source also suggests Mario Sunshine didn't have a "free" rotating camera but a combination of horizontal rotation and zoom: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine/Controls I guess then the first game I definitely know that had a free camera was The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, which came out a few months after Sunshine. This is also confirmed here: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Wind_Waker/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Wind_... Of course the question is whether there might have been an earlier game which had it. Regarding Ico, apparently it also allows only horizontal rotation (camera "panning" is horizontal movement): https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls

I don't think that's true, I remember playing both Jak and Daxter and Ico in either 2000 or 2001 and I think both of those had camera control with the right-hand analog stick.

cubefox 1y ago

This one says camera rotation for Jak and Daxter is mapped on the R/L buttons: https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls But Ico indeed used the stick for the camera: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls However, I'm not sure whether it was only used for horizontal rotation or full arbitrary rotation (arbitrary combinations of horizontal and vertical) as in Super Mario Sunshine. But it might very well be the first game to have that, not Mario Sunshine.

ChoGGi 1y ago
Turok from 1997 let you use the dpad for movement and stick to look/aim. Edit: Oh, sorry didn't see you mention third person.
CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
> This one says camera rotation for Jak and Daxter is mapped on the R/L buttons: https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls https://jakanddaxter.fandom.com/wiki/Daxter_controls Seems wrong too, archived manual (https://archive.org/details/ps2_Jak_and_Daxter-_The_Precursor_Legacy_USA/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/ps2_Jak_and_Daxter-_The_Precurso...) seems to say "RIGHT ANALOG STICK ... Camera Rotate/Zoom" under the game controls. I think the page you linked to is for another game.
- cubefox 1y ago
  I just looked at a few videos and it seems that the analog stick does indeed move the camera, though apparently only horizontally, not "freely" with arbitrary rotations. I'm not sure though.
  - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
    How is that different from Super Mario Sunshine? It was probably two decades ago I last played it, but I think it was the same.
    - cubefox 1y ago
      No there you can do arbitrary camera rotations, not just horizontal ones. For example, you can view the character from above.
      - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
        Now you made me unsure, so skimmed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrsWUmiayLM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrsWUmiayLM for a bit, which seems to me to confirm it's just horizontal camera movement. But there seems to be a zoom in/out functionality, which would move the camera in/out+vertically, but that's different than rotating around the character freely. The camera also does a ton of vertical movements by itself too, as Mario jumps/falls.
        cubefox 1y ago
        Yeah, I think you are actually right. I must have misremembered it. This source also suggests Mario Sunshine didn't have a "free" rotating camera but a combination of horizontal rotation and zoom: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Sunshine/Controls I guess then the first game I definitely know that had a free camera was The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, which came out a few months after Sunshine. This is also confirmed here: https://strategywiki.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Wind_Waker/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/The_Legend_of_Zelda:_The_Wind_... Of course the question is whether there might have been an earlier game which had it. Regarding Ico, apparently it also allows only horizontal rotation (camera "panning" is horizontal movement): https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls https://strategywiki.org/wiki/ICO/Controls