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Ask HN: I just inherited 700K+ lines of bad PHP. Advice?

• ecaron 14y ago
  Are you working on this by yourself? How long until your employer is expecting bugs fixed and features added?
  • ohmygord 14y ago
    Yes, by myself. The client so far has been understanding... they've already burnt through several contracting companies, and I think they're starting to understand what a mess it is. But still, they want to see serious progress within a month (eg. large number of bug fixes).
    • ecaron 14y ago
      I think that programmers frequently adopt a new product, see it is a mess, and burn-out trying to clean up the mess on the first pass. I think you should start figuring out where it forked from the original code base & generate a diff from that. Then throw a bunch of tools, from Cacti to Xdebug/APC's control panel, to get a good handling of the current benchmarks. Get the code into a SCM (probably git), then start tackling current bugs & feature-requests - BEFORE you start tearing down to the baseboards. After a month or two of that, you'll see the first pain points. Going after the pain points one at a time, rather than all at once, will keep your client happy and you sane.
    • justincormack 14y ago
      You will be lucky to get serious numbers of bug fixes on that timetable I suspect. These codebases are hard to work with. Been there done that. I would look at migrating the clients to another product that works, or even a less forked version of vtiger.
    • neuroscr 14y ago
      You're not going to have serious progress for a year. The DB is borked, so you have no foundation at all. Software Engineering is serious business, there's bugs, new features, maintenance, testing, etc. They failed to manage their code. You need to be realistic that with a team of 2-5 people it could take years to fix. It might be best to put it out of its misery if they can't hold off their clients demands and buy you the time needed to rebuild it.
    • Turing_Machine 14y ago
      They've burned through several contractors, and now you're the latest one to be headed for the auto-da-fé? Unless you're can't-pay-your-bills broke and there are no other jobs in your area, the correct response is "I'm sorry. This can't be fixed. It needs to be scrapped completely and replaced with something maintainable. If that's not an option, I'm going to have to resign." Even if you manage to fix it, it'll still be a pile of crap, and you'll never get the credit you deserve. On the other hand, if you don't manage to fix it you're going to get blamed. Zero credit on the upside, major blame on the downside. There's nothing for you in this but pain, my friend.
• pmtarantino 14y ago
  A few weeks ago I was commited with something like that. I just quit the job, I couldn't sleep at night and I was not making any progress in the first days. I know there is a learning curve, but it had been two weeks and I couldn't do anything. Be sure you can work with that before accepting, because then is really hard.
  • kellishaver 14y ago
    I had a similar experience a few months ago, myself, with a huge, very poorly written PHP app. I lasted three weeks; three weeks in which I didn't sleep and felt constantly agitated while I spent nearly every waking moment at the computer trying to be productive amidst an ocean of stress. My whole family suffered from this project, because I became very difficult to live with.
• fallous 14y ago
  I've faced similar Augean stables in the past (and present, unfortunately). I'd suggest that correcting the DB is one of the last things you can do, especially if queries are scattered throughout the code instead of in functions. You could attempt to abstract it with an internal API and as you update the codebase replace with calls to the API. Once fully abstracted, you can then focus on getting the DB corrected and only need to modify the new API functionality. As to the code itself, sit down and map out all the verbs and nouns in the system. If you have a Contact noun, what is the definition of that role and what verbs can be applied to it or what verbs could it do. This gives you a good map for creating functions that can then be used to replace existing inline stuff. Triage the worst bugs or performance bottlenecks and see if they are particular to a noun and/or verb, which should give you an obvious starting place to begin refactoring. For emergency hotfixes and such, feel free to just tweak the existing crap code but otherwise try and work on your functional units to get ahead of the game. And always remember, pimpin' ain't easy. ;)
  • bobfromhuddle 14y ago
    +1 for this. The first job is to stabilise the system by fixing critical bugs. As you're doing so, move all those queries into one big fat DB class, and when you spot groups of related queries, split them out into their own classes. The next priority should be to get rid of the PHP from the DB - if need be create another huge class with a zillion if-else statements. You need to modify the code to simplify it. You don't need to improve the design, you just need to dumb it down until you can understand where all the parts are. Stabilise, simplify, then refactor.
  • sp332 14y ago
    But first... version control!
• zalew 14y ago
  you are doomed. flee.
• beck5 14y ago
  I would start by spending a week or two wrapping the application in Acceptance tests (cucumber/capybara) just so when you do make a change you are able to quickly find out to a semi decent level of confidence things are ok. I would also recommend Working Effectively with Legacy Code By Robert C. Martin. Good luck!
  • eigenrick 14y ago
    Can't agree more with this. The way you reduce risk when migrating code (especially code you don't fully understand) is to build strong integration and end to end tests. This will allow you to be more aggressive when replacing crap code with new functionality. Given this huge mound of code, this process will be quite a drag, but it will pay off in spades in the long run. Trust us.
  • mattmcknight 14y ago
    "Working Effectively with Legacy Code" is by Michael Feathers. http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Michael-Feathers/dp/0131177052 http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Michael-Fea...
• toddmorey 14y ago
  So the cold reality for this client is that the codebase will have to be replaced over time. You are not trying to escape legacy simply for the lure of something new, you are trying to escape insanity. I would talk to the client about focusing your effort on helping them transition--a small piece at time--to a sane architecture. If they aren't open to that, they aren't your client. I've been a business leader in a position where we had to make really tough and painful decisions about coding projects gone awry. I don't envy their position, but continuing forward with this monster does not seem to be in the long-term interests of the company.
  • deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  • wissler 14y ago
    This is the best response. To be a bit more general: evaluate whether the client is actually willing and able to take the sane course of action starting NOW and continuing over the long term. If not, and you stay, there's no advice that's going to be much help. Your life will be hell.
  • mattmcknight 14y ago
    This is the beauty of the web- the transition to a sane architecture can be done page by page- without any visibility to the user. Every time you have to make a change- fix an old feature or add a new one, you replace it with the new architecture. Even if it's not a whole page- you can load in a partial with javascript. The challenge is holding back from going too deep on the refactoring all at once. Functional tests around the system have to be added to keep your sanity as part of the change process.
• d0m 14y ago
  But what do you have to do with that? Is it maintenance? Do you need to fix bugs? If it's maintenance/bug fix, I'd suggest starting by writing tests and fixing things on a day to day basis. So, for all small tasks that you'll have to do with the code base, just analyse the safest way to tweak it. Most often than not, you'll see that it's just changing a couple lines. If you need to add new features, just code them correctly in another part of the program. And before you know, you'll understand the code-base. But, tests are really the most important thing here. Don't try to refactor if you can't make sure you're not breaking everything.
• joell 14y ago
  Run.
• citricsquid 14y ago
  What is most important is what are you trying to achieve. Are you trying to make the system as stable as possible at the lowest cost to the client or are you trying to bring this system into a future proof state and the client is willing to pay for that? Personally if I were in your position I would explain to the client that I'm happy to temporarily fix some bugs but long term the system needs to be rewritten. 700k lines of code is a lot, but the way you've described it I get the feeling most of that code is needless. Depending on what the system actually does you could conceivably rebuild in a few months.
  • mtrimpe 14y ago
    I've spent quite some time the cross-component spaghetti code large companies sometimes write. I've come to believe that the skill of not rewriting from scratch but forcing yourself to slowly refactor (as per Martin Fowler's definition) existing systems into a proper state is one of the most important skills you can develop. That way, once you've refactored most of the system (which includes adding tests for all the important functionality) you can indeed confidently rewrite everything. If you do it any sooner than that though, you're in for a world of pain.
    • seldo 14y ago
      Second this. The temptation to rewrite from scratch is to be avoided; the code is going to be a mass of edge-cases, and you can't spot them all at once. Rewriting will take just as long as refactoring and introduce new bugs instead of killing old ones.
• pfisch 14y ago
  You should quit. Life is short, there is no reason for you to spend it doing that.
• cranklin 14y ago
  I have a similar story... only I inherited terribly written JSP. It was just as bad if not worse than you describe. I ended up re-writing everything from scratch; now, I am so glad I did.
• ck2 14y ago
  I started writing some suggestions but you know what - someone is dumping this on you because they didn't care and their predecessors didn't care, etc. They probably make far more than you for doing far less. The moment you start touching the code, you are going to start being blamed for the nightmare preceding you. It could even affect your career if future employment researches where you worked previously and gets told you made the mess in the first place.
  • strictfp 14y ago
    Yes, and the chance that the OP will get the codebase in order sounds minimal. It's simply too large, it would take one person many years to clean up a mess like that.
  • pasbesoin 14y ago
    My thoughts are in line with this. Are you (honestly) being hired or promoted to fix this mess, or to keep things running? If the former, has the incredible scale and scope of this been properly identified, addressed, and acknowledged? Are you guaranteed anything near the resources to (try to) accomplish this (including your own time, without traipsing far into overtime)? Is the current state documented sufficiently to obviate any and all future attempts to blame you? If the latter (more likely, I suspect), well... I guess the simplest question is, do you have an agenda and an exit strategy that leaves your career intact? (And your health...) Maybe, given the particulars, this is a real opportunity for you. But that's not spelled out at all, nor obviously implied, in your post. And given that this situation was allowed to develop to this extent in the first place, and that you have angry clients to deal with, right off the bat, it doesn't sound promising. Do you like playing the role of unacknowledged hero who falls on his sword and is cursed by his clueless fellows, while some other protagonist goes on to get the girl? There is a lot of downside, here. What's the upside? Do the organization's goals and commitments match your personal ones?
• scotty79 14y ago
  Don't touch anything. Run. There's no glory for you in this.
  • LoseThosMan 14y ago
    Here's the punch-line: It's called "Linux".
• wanderr 14y ago
  This might sound sacreligious to the many vim fans here, but get a good IDE, it will help you get a handle on what the code is doing and let you navigate around faster, which is especially handy if the execution path for accomplishing any one thing involves dozens of files. A good IDE will also point out blatant errors, and a really good IDE will point out potential errors as well. I personally really like PHPStorm by JetBrains, the code inspection tool is quite good. I was recently able to cut the size of our code base in half by using it to identify tens of thousands of bugs, a lot of them on inspection were "this never worked" type bugs, which with a little digging I was able to confirm could never be called. Eliminating code also makes refactoring the remaining code easier because you have fewer interdependencies to worry about.
• army 14y ago
  I hope you're getting paid well for this. One of the most important things is just to manage expectations - it sounds like you've got a huge task ahead of you and people will underestimate how long it will take you to fix stuff. It might also pay to just focus on getting the software into a maintainable but ugly state.
• mahasvin 14y ago
  Is there an option to migrate db to another CRM with similar functionality? If memory serves, vTiger is a sugar clone.
• lhnz 14y ago
  1. Get it onto version control. 2. Make sure there is some workable strategy for deploying and testing the code. 3. Ask somebody to provide you with a list of the changes, or else try to create some kind of diff against the original version of the code. If you can see crazy stuff here then find out who did it... 4. Ask somebody what the biggest bugs are? Which things are causing clients the most problems? 5. Try to establish which convention is 'winning' in the codebase. But you might want to create a more sensible convention which will allow unit testing (start this immediately!) 6. At this point, ask if you can hire people to work on this with you as it's a big problem, and you need to free yourself up for the rewrite. 7. If that isn't possible then leave. You have done enough to make your CV better and a company which passes you something like this does not care about your career.
  • mtrimpe 14y ago
    First read the Fowler's 'Refactoring' book; it was written just for you. Then: 1. Identify a small and easily separable piece of code (what you woud call a component in a normal system.) 2. Write tests covering every (important?) edge-case of the piece of code you want to rewrite. 3. Mercilessly refactor until it's nice and squeeky clean. 4. Lather, rinse and repeat. And of course, make sure your client acknowledges that it's a giant clusterf... and is on board with you pulling the system out of the stone age. Also, if you want to make life a bit more interesting for yourself, get the PHP code's AST and programmatically rewrite existing code to shared conventions for kicks.
    • masklinn 14y ago
      > First read the Fowler's 'Refactoring' book; it was written just for you. "Refactoring" is not the tool for the job, although it's a nice sidearm. What OP needs is the big gun, Feathers's "working effectively with legacy code": http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Michael-Feathers/dp/0131177052 http://www.amazon.com/Working-Effectively-Legacy-Michael-Fea... As the title hints, it was written specifically and expressly for the "I just got a huge amount of complete shit of a codebase shoved unto me, how do I survive". Just check the TOC of part 2 (the meat of the book): http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/software-engineering-and-development/0131177052 http://my.safaribooksonline.com/book/software-engineering-an... > And of course, make sure your client acknowledges that it's a giant clusterf... That's hugely important. No promises of delivery, and that the client understands it's not a cakewalk.
• schulz 14y ago
  1. I'm so sorry. 2. Set up a development environment and deploy the code there. Get it working. With code that large (and with the added wrinkle of executing code out of the database) changing things is going to be a nightmare of unintended consequences. Getting a testable environment up will let you find those things and help you understand what it does. 3. Get it in version control. This should be number 1: Before you make changes get a baseline of where it was. 4. Find a bug that exemplifies the nastiness of the whole situation and make a fuss. Let everybody know why this bug is so bad and what caused it. This will give your employer a concrete example to look at when you say "this code is shite". Harp on this bug. 5. Fix that one bug. Roll it out. Be a hero. At this point you'll have a good base line, some credibility, and the organization will understand what a mess they've got. Now you'll have to figure out what you want to accomplish: keep it limping along? Improve it? Rewrite? The above steps will get your feet under you.
• TomGullen 14y ago
  Even though the DB is a monstrosity, I'd start by familiarising yourself with it intimately. Once you know what data is meant to go where, it should be a good starting point for fixing things.
• beering 14y ago
  You should make sure to set expectations. If your employer only wants the minimal amount of maintenance done, then don't do any more. You could go to heroic lengths to repair the codebase, but if that's not what they're asking for it will be in vain. Second, I suggest applying as many tools as you can. A modern version control system, of course, and keeping any version control history that you inherited (although it sounds unlikely). A powerful IDE might also let you start cutting out crap immediately, so try PHPStorm or Eclipse+PHP (or both!) and see what they can tell you. And start writing tests as you start making changes, because you'll likely break something seemingly unrelated when you start changing things.
• jsmartonly 14y ago
  * Rewrite. * NEVER modify existing one. Once you change one line of comment, you own all the code and problem from that point. * If rewrite is not allowed, then ask huge pay raise for this work. Basically it is not about money, it is about bring everyone on the same page on the status of he existing solution. * If the above does not work out, prepare to switch to another project, or quit the job totally.
  • thaumaturgy 14y ago
    There is absolutely no way to rewrite a million lines of business logic without ending up with an even bigger mess. See also: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000069.html
    • jsmartonly 14y ago
      I read that article before and totally agree with the point. But that situation is different from the one we discuss here. I do not know more information about ohmygord's project, but I basically want to point out to consider non-technical side of it. For example, people in the same team may not technical, and/or think maintaining existing solution is simple. I was in similar situation before, I was lucky to happen to select right strategy to deal with the situation.
• smiler 14y ago
  I love this kind of stuff - if you fancy an extra pair of hands then contact details are in my profile
• RivieraKid 14y ago
  700k+ codebase and a single developer? That sounds crazy. Run away from this. Trying work with this code would make you stressed and frustrated, which will have a significant negative impact on your productivity. If the company plans to add features to this software, they should hire more than one developers and perhaps rewrite it from scratch. Edit: Also send your boss link to this discussion :)
• jsmartonly 14y ago
  * Situation like this is not only technical issue any more. Your solution needs to reflect that. * This is not best situation to be in, but if you learn to deal with this and emerge from it. This experience will make you so much stronger. So be ready to quit, but do not quit too early. Good luck! (I replied earlier, but the above two points are so important that they worth a different post.)
• smoyer 14y ago
  This is a case where having a defined development process and good sharp tools can be very helpful. Here are the steps I'd use to tackle this problem code (though it's based on what you wrote above and might need to be adapted as you learn more. 1) Study how the software is actually used and design the "ideal architecture" (this may be a moving target). 2) Get the software into a version control system. 3) When a section of the code needs work, first write tests that pass for the current functionality of the module but fail for the behavior you're trying to fix. 4) As you repair code in step 3, also migrate the code "towards" your preferred architecture ... this is going to be a very gradual process so don't try to complete it in one step and use your tests to verify you haven't broken the system. This is also a good time to start inserting patterns like MVC/MVP as it will help. - http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestEveryRefactoring http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestEveryRefactoring 5) When you've found "reams of copy+paste code", refactor that code into utility classes (files, whatever). - http://martinfowler.com/refactoring/ http://martinfowler.com/refactoring/ 6) Establish processes for migrating the database both forwards and backwards between versions (you'll need a rollback someday). 7) Treat the database schema as source code and refactor it as you work. It sounds like you're a long way from being able to use an ORM, but have a plan for migrating the database towards the day you can. - http://martinfowler.com/articles/evodb.html http://martinfowler.com/articles/evodb.html 8) Get the PHP code out of the database ... that's going to be painful but worthwhile. 9) Get some help! I've used the Sonar source code quality analysis tools on Java projects for years. There's a PHP plugin for it here (http://docs.codehaus.org/display/SONAR/PHP+Plugin http://docs.codehaus.org/display/SONAR/PHP+Plugin) and it will help you determine what areas might be worth targeting. It also helps by establishing style and practice rules that will help get a team coordinated. One of the hallmarks of a project like this is that coding styles changed dramatically during the project's existence - Establishing a style guide (including patterns and forbidding anti-patterns) can be very helpful. So in short ... don't "run screaming" but rather sit and think when you feel overwhelmed. If you can solve a complex problem when writing source code, you can also solve systemic problems. Good luck!
• robomartin 14y ago
  Take a few steps back and relax. If you were looking at this from the Space Station, who would you say has a problem with the code base? That's right, your client. Not you. Your client. If he/she has 150 installs and 150 angry clients he/she knows that this thing is rotten somewhere. You client may or may not have some technical understanding but rest assured that they understand business. Life often boils down to binary decision. You have two choices. Gracefully exit and move on or try to help your client. If you choose option B you've also made another choice: Your first job is NOT to be a programmer. No, you are going to have to be a teacher. You have to do your best to explain to your client why he might be sitting on a ticking time bomb (or whatever you might want to call it). It is imperative that your client understand that he has handed you an ugly, stinking, putrid and smelly mess. Without client buy-in I would walk away. Now, here's the challenge: You have to find a way to communicate the problem that is not menacingly full of CS jargon and acronyms that mean exactly zero to your client. I've had to deal with these kinds of problems before. On one or two occasions I made the mistake of not securing an understanding with my client and suffered the consequences. These were miserable walking-through-feces-infested-mud experiences. Never again. Once I learned that lesson things changed. My most memorable experience was when I got client buy-in from a major international corporation and, once they realized that they had a huge problem, they put me up at the Waldorf Astoria in Manhattan for a full month (these guys are so big that they have rooms pre-paid for "emergencies"). Imagine a guy in a t-shirt, jeans and sandals showing up at the Astoria. I've never been looked at like that before. Once they realized who my employer was things changed. Fuck, the room had marble and gold-plated crap everywhere. But I digress, the point of that last example is that once a client understand the degree of the problem in their hands things change. If having a solution to this problem is important enough there is no end to what they will spend to fix it. Is it a business-killing problem? Even better. Judging from your description my proposal to your client --after they really, really get it-- is to re-write their entire app from scratch. I would further propose that you are going to need to hire a few more people (two to five?) in order to get this done as quickly as possible. And, yes, this will be expensive. You can use many analogies to explain the problem. I'll leave that up to you. I've used ideas like that of constructing a building on a foundation of sand rather than concrete while using substandard supplies rather than industry-accepted good quality building components. Whatever analogy you use, it has to convey the severity of the problem without resorting to CS. If your client has some technical chops you can get into it a little AFTER you are done with your analogy. Finally, the most important part: You have to be willing to walk away from it. You state the problem and explain that it will be expensive. You also state that you are not interested in anything other than a full re-write of the app because you are not in the business of doing further damage to your clients. Respectfully suggest that without full buy-in you'll need to move on and he will need to find another developer who might we willing to patch this thing up. In many ways, it's that simple. Two choices.
• nader 14y ago
  If you haven't done anything like this for the past I would say that as much as it is a pain in the ass you probably can also learn a lot from it and you will get out of the job with a lot of experience in refactoring, testing, bugfixing and deploying. You could also see it as a chance to establish a long lasting relationship and a boost in confidence and salary if you do it right.
• grey-area 14y ago
  The first thing I would do, before doing any work, would be to sit down with the client/your boss and explain just how bad the situation is, that drastic solutions are in order, and that it will take years to get this under control (with 1m LOC and 150 clients presumably all running customised software, this would take years to sort out even with a large team working on it). Unless they understand that from the beginning you will never get the backing you need to sort this out. This might be one of the few occasions where a complete rewrite is justified (if you can keep scope limited to reproducing what you have). You've said the code is incredibly complex, and if the problem domain is incredibly complex too, you're probably stuck refactoring. If the problem domain is pretty simple (a CRM without too many extra features might be), you may be better starting with your smallest client who uses the product the least, asking for all the pain points, and things they love, about the current software, and writing a simple CRM to cover their needs which replicates the features of the current product, then gradually porting other clients over to the new system and adding new features to it, while keeping the old code-base in maintenance mode and fixing serious bugs only. If you do a rewrite you'd have to port the 150 clients over 1 by 1, and leave the other code in maintenance mode - your primary client may not be at all happy with that. If that's not possible, you'll have to refactor it slowly while keeping the code in place, so the first step is to get it into version control, sort out a sane deployment strategy with testing servers, then try improving some small isolated areas of the code for one of the clients in isolation. Good luck!
• cdavid 14y ago
  what does inherit mean here ? You were most likely not hired to refactor 700KLOC, because they would not have been in that position if they had a decent engineering process in the first place. Obviously, do not rewrite from scratch: it is a 700 KLOC piece of code so even at a completely unrealistic rate of 500 LOC / day, it would take you a 5-10 man years to do it, and I doubt the system is well specified. First, I would focus on doing something visible for the client: show that you can deliver, and do it as quickly as possible. This means: do not try to understand everything, do not try to get a mental model of the whole thing. Once you get some buy-in from your customer and people within your client, you will have more flexibility to negotiate things, and be able to use most of the technical advices you were given. If the customer is not willing to enter this kind of discussions after you showed you could deliver, I would just walk away if you can.
• wpietri 14y ago
  My tips: Raise your rates. If you just took the gig, you'll have to wait a bit. But you should price your work such that whether they say yes or no, you have no regrets. Expose the problem. Start inventorying the issues. Track them in the same way that you track other work. As you do things that the client has requested, track real vs actual time. E.g., "This change took 12 hours; if the code base were clean, it would have taken 1." Estimate the size of the problem. Talk in terms of technical debt. E.g., "Module X needs 120 hours of work to bring the code to commonly accepted standards of code quality." The clients are thinking, "We have a system we paid $1m for, so it's an asset worth $1m." Expose the debt and they will have a better idea of the true value of the code base. Look for opportunities to declare tactical bankruptcy. Once you have numbers, you can show that some portions of the code base will be cheaper to rewrite than to clean up. Help your clients make good financial decisions about when to just toss and rewrite particular parts of the code. Don't let them make you crazy. I'd recommend something like a kanban board to track work and strictly limit work in process. This system is probably a mess because the client is insane. Develop some very clear, very firm boundaries that keep them from driving you crazy as well. If you are lucky, they will, over time, learn from you to behave rationally about software.
• languagehacker 14y ago
  This sounds like a decent candidate for being put into maintenance-only mode while you gameplan a new product. It's pretty impressive the kind of distance you can get with a modern framework these days. You've got the other application there to refer to, so it shouldn't be too hard to port over the more core logic into a service layer that you can actually test. What I like about the "start from scratch" approach, though most people argue against it, is that it gives you an opportunity to shape the entire development process and architectural philosophy of the product. Sometimes the tree of good software must be refreshed with the blood of bad projects.
• tpolecat 14y ago
  The problem you will face is that you have no way to verify that you haven't broken something unrelated when you make a change, because the current behavior of the system is unknowable; you can't write comprehensive tests for a codebase that large and that bad because you don't even know what it's supposed to be doing. The chickenshit nature of PHP and the lack of a sensible type system and refactoring tools will make things even more difficult. So, run. Seriously. You're doomed.
• thaumaturgy 14y ago
  I have actually worked on a code base like you're describing, on a contract basis, for a client. I loathe maintenance programming, so the relationship didn't last very long -- just a few months. So: 1. Make sure you have a rock-solid contract in place with the client that will ensure that you get paid, get paid well, and get paid often. Receiving a check in the mail makes it easier to look at the code. If your payment terms are anything like, "payment-upon-completion of ...", or, "paid net 30 after invoice", or anything like that, you simply won't want to work on the code. 2. If "soul-crushing", "depressing", or "makes me want to hang myself" are phrases you'd use to describe the code or your state of mind when looking at it, then go into this project knowing that you're not going to last long. There are people who genuinely enjoy working on stuff like this. You aren't one of them. 3. Everybody that says "rewrite" is dreaming. It is impossible to rewrite something that large without breaking something and spending too much money. Re-factoring a function is doable. Re-factoring a thousand-line file is doable. Re-factoring part of a database is doable. Re-factoring all of it all at once is starry-eyed fiction. Not gonna happen. 4. But, if taking ownership of this code base is something you want to do, then add re-factoring time in to your agreement with the client -- something like, "20% time spent replacing bad code" -- and focus on the tiniest little ugly thing you can find, and re-factor that. Start on it, don't stop until it's done. Keep it in small bite-sized chunks. 5. Make sure you're getting paid for time spent just getting familiar with the code base. If you work with it long enough you'll actually get pretty familiar with most of it, but you want to do that on their dime, not yours. 6. Get help. They surely realize by now that they've got a mess on their hands. Talk with them about whether or not you can bring on additional help. If they flat-out refuse, run. (That is what killed my work with my client; I wanted to move into a position where I managed a junior programmer and focused on code rewrites and higher-level stuff; they refused, I quit. They wanted an employee, not a contractor.) 7. Version control and a sane bug tracking system (Mantis isn't horrible) are must-haves. If they don't have these, again, make sure they pay for it. Dealing with a code base like this one is as much about state-of-mind as anything else. Either you can handle it or you can't. No amount of advice here will make it more palatable to you if you're not the sort of person that's OK with inheriting a disaster. Also, even if you've got some kind of agreement in place with the client already, it sounds like you've just now gotten your first look at the code. This, in my opinion, makes it totally OK to go back to the client and re-negotiate. You can open it with, "I'd like to work with you, but now that I've seen the project that you want me to work on, I can understand why this has been a problem for you, and I need to make sure that we can come to an agreement that will work for both of us so that I can fix this for you." (Or something.)
• kristiandupont 14y ago
  My secret weapon is a folding editor called Code Browser. http://tibleiz.net/code-browser/ http://tibleiz.net/code-browser/ -- with this, you can do a non-destructive (well, it only adds comments) folding of the source. This is a very fast way to get a better view of what's going on. I've used it many times when trying to make sense of legacy code. That is, if you choose to go through with it. My real advice would be to avoid it altogether as many others here. It's going to be extremely frustrating no matter how you attack the problem.
• burningion 14y ago
  I was in this exact same situation two years ago, only with an eCommerce platform which shall remain anonymous. The client had gone through 4 companies, trying to get the project built and finished. Nobody had been able to wrangle it clean. Reluctantly, I took on the project, and started working through it. What I initially estimated would take me a month to untangle ended up taking a year. That's an entire year in the snake pit. And since it was eCommerce, there was serious money on the line when it came to bugs. And there were hundreds that I found. Just understand the commitment you're making. Make sure your client has the money and the time to make things right. Ultimately, in my project, the client insisted on quick hacks to keep competition at bay, and the code dissolved into a mess. I decided I couldn't keep working with a codebase that was never given a chance. Understand what you're getting yourself into. Because you're taking over the responsibility of loading a massive crap ton of software into your head for diagnosis. How long do you want to have fragile, crappy, lazy code in your head? Forget about bring superman, you're not going to save a million lines of code, you're going to become the builder of the hacks that work around absurdity. Make sure you understand that. The burden of broken code you're responsible for, that's always broken in production is like nothing I've ever encountered. Make sure it's worth it.
• naww 14y ago
  http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/155488/ive-inherited-200k-lines-of-spaghetti-code-what-now http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/155488/ive-in...
• ScottBurson 14y ago
  Lots of good advice in here. I lean toward the "run screaming" side myself. The fact that they've burned through several contracting companies and still think it's possible to get large numbers of bug fixes in the first month suggests that they're pretty clueless. It's going to take you two or three months (if not longer) just to get your head into the code enough that you can fix anything nontrivial. If I were advising them, I would say they need two teams: one team of just two or three people (or maybe just one) solely trying to fix bugs in the existing code, and the other team of three or four people doing a complete rewrite from scratch. As others have commented, complete rewrites are normally a bad idea, but this code base is so far gone I don't think it can be incrementally refactored into sanity. Oh, and they should expect the rewrite to take two years. But despite their experience to this point, it sounds like they're still not ready to hear that. Which leaves you little choice but to run screaming. EDITED to add: what these people need to understand is that their demand for results in a hurry is what got them into this mess in the first place. Until they get that I don't think there's any hope.
• michielvoo 14y ago
  Make sure the code (including any stored procedures or code that is otherwise stored in the database) is in a version control repository. Because any change in this code might have unexpected, subtle consequences (i.e. introduce more bugs). In which case you'd do better rolling back that particular change. The next step would be to get a grip on deployment. Automate it, so you can roll out updates and roll back updates to all clients without breaking a sweat. Then set up a proper backlog and bug tracking system, where you can prioritize bugs and work items. (And maybe open it up for bug reports by clients?) Just like with a real debt, with a technical debt, seeing progress can help to keep you going. At this point, you should have a grip on it, it's just still going to be a lot of hard work. There's good advice on how to approach the refactoring. Finally, and this is not related to the code, educate stakeholders in your organization about the concept of technical debt. (Back it up by time tracking various work items from the bug tracker.) Somehow your organization got into this situation, so there may be a problem where new features or custom features for clients get priority before bugfixes, and are written without much guidance. Joel Spolsky has written on this subject, you may find his writings help explain the concept, as well as find a way out of this mess (like the '12 steps to better software'). Good luck!
• pyalot2 14y ago
  Chances are infinitesimally small you can fix it. If you start to maintain it, you'll be the one who gets the blame if it doesn't work. In an absolute best-case scenario you get to rewrite it whole in your spare time, while trying to keep the legacy code together with ducttape and chickenwire on your employers time. Get out, get out now. They don't need a maintenance programmer, they need a ninja programmer, the liquidator kind.
• RobAley 14y ago
  OK, so everyone else has pretty much covered the arguments for "don't do it, run" and for "re-write it". But assuming that you either a) have to maintain it anyway (can't afford to lose job etc.) or b) are going to re-write it but don't have a definte spec to know what it has to do then you are going to need to try and understand the code base. Here are some PHP specific tools to help you. - Use XHGUI[1] (which is a fork of Facebooks XHProf) to profile the code as it runs. It can draw call-graphs for you (if you have Graphviz installed) which will help you to visuallise the code flow. - Use PHPdoc[2] to generate API docs. This will help you get a simplified overview of the code to use as a reference. - Use Xdebug[3] as you make changes and execute code to get more insight into how it is running and to trace variables etc. through the execution. You can use KCacheGrind [4] to visualise the output of Xdebug. - Use a staging/development environment for everything you do with this code, and don't push any changes into to production until you really, really have to. When you do, use version control (e.g. Git, SVN etc.) and use an automated build system (Phing[5] is a great PHP specific one) to try and keep everything consistent. Good luck! Quick plug : I'm currently writing a book [6] about PHP development (called PHP Everywhere : Programming beyond the web with PHP) which covers the tools above (albeit not for the kind of job you are taking on!). The one small mercy you may have when tackling a project like this is that it is written in PHP. PHP is usually quite a verbose language, which while it doesn't always produce sexy code, does mean that its straight forward to read and understand (at the local level!). An extra space here and there doesn't usually alter the meaning of the code as it does in some languages! [1] https://github.com/preinheimer/xhprof https://github.com/preinheimer/xhprof [2] http://www.phpdoc.org/ http://www.phpdoc.org/ [3] http://www.xdebug.org/ http://www.xdebug.org/ [4] http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net http://kcachegrind.sourceforge.net [5] http://www.phing.info/ http://www.phing.info/ [6] http://leanpub.com/php http://leanpub.com/php
  • ohmygord 14y ago
    Hey RobAley, thanks a lot for the tool recommendations... also big thanks for the person who suggested SONAR+PHP, will definitely look at that too. I was planning on using phpdoc and xdebug, but haven't ever looked at XHGUI. Is it significantly different from xdebug? At first glance there seems to be a fair bit of overlap in terms of functionality.
• krapp 14y ago
  Charge them a dollar per line?
• dillinger 14y ago
  1. Put it under Version control. Preferably GIT, You will need a lot of the tools that git and github provide. A private Github account will do but hosted github is what I'd prefer. 2. Get a Test System that has enough horsepower. 3. Create a deployscript 4. Deploy until it seems to work. 5. Start working with CI and static code analysis. You might get lucky when it comes to copy paste code. Copy-Paste detection and Coding Standards come to mind at first but there are a lot more helpers 6. Automatically create some API Documentation. The worst code cant hide what is inheriting from which class etc. Integrate Generation of Docs into the CI. 7. Create some basic so called "Smoke Tests". I'd prefer some very basic Selenium Tests opening the most important parts of the app. This is straight forward. Run them against the APP with error logging turned on on every E_ALL. This error.log is your scary list. 8. Setup Single Builds and try to integrate with More than one Version of Vtiger, PHP and Mysql. Since you have 150 Customers, chance is great that you have 150 different setups. Note: You havent changed one line of code yet. Sit down with the customer and discuss all your findings and metrics. 9. Start creating different GIT repos with the above process for all the modules that are added by your customer. Integrate with the build and run the tests until you have the same amount of errors like before. start extending the build To build Against your Mysql, PHP Versions ... I could go on forever .. but basically this will get you up and running.
• debacle 14y ago
  I remember a client asking for vtiger once. I downloaded the source, and didn't even get to installation before I fired the client. I really, really feel for you on this one. The only thing I can say is: Make a beachhead of clean, working code. Slowly work your way out. Make it very clear to this client how much of a favor you're doing them, and give them meaningful status reports (even if all you did is rewrite the glue between to pieces of code).
• korona 14y ago
  Explain the situation as calmly and thoroughly as possible to the client, and suggest a complete rewrite, if they ever want future development to be possible.
• stilkov 14y ago
  First of all, make sure the client and you agree on what the long-term strategy is. Then get buy-in for a first step in this direction. If the system is as bad as you make it sound, the long-term goal has got to be a complete replacement of the existing codebase. That will usually require as much effort, and thus money, as writing the existing version did. (Experience shows there's is no reason to confidently assume different.) Then, explain how to get there without doing a (hopeless) complete rewrite in one big bang: First, you need to make a set of decisions for the new code you're going to write, i.e. the language, framework(s), architecture, whatever you want to new code to be based on. Next, you try to modularize the existing system so that you can replace one tiny part. That's going to be really, really hard - modularizing a systems after it's in production always is. Don't do it all at once: If you've isolated some small piece of so that there's a clear interface (based on a programming language API, a database interface or (my favorite) some RESTful HTTP API), rewrite that small piece using your new technology stack and integrate it with the existing monstrosity. Once you have done that successfully for some small aspect, you have some sort of proof that this approach can work. Then, over the next months (or more likely: years), rinse and repeat. This is a hugely expensive thing to do, but that shouldn't come as a surprise – after all, you're replacing the organs in a living body while it's running a marathon on its last breath. An MBA should understand that the additional cost is because this strategy drastically reduces the risk. You can explain to the customer that they can try this out using just a small part, and decide whether or not they want to continue afterwards. Point out that you're going to start with those parts that produce most of the existing pain. Explain that you're helping them to return to a situation in which they have fewer bugs, can introduce new features quickly and easily, and best of all, that the end result will be a system that's modularized, hopefully ensuring that they won't run into the same situation again. If they expect you to do magic, i.e. maintain the mess and magically turn it into a good piece of software without being allowed to actually change it significantly, get out of the contract as quickly as you can.
  • algermissen 14y ago
    Stefan humbly omitted a reference to his excellent treatment of breaking up a monolithic giant. It's well worth a watch, so here you go: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Breaking-the-Monolith http://www.infoq.com/presentations/Breaking-the-Monolith