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> nothing good comes out of that One might argue that global connection through economic ties is what gave us thes last 50 years of relative peace. So even wit

> nothing good comes out of that One might argue that global connection through economic ties is what gave us thes last 50 years of relative peace. So even with talent/ip drain there's a solid humanitarian and cosmopolitan argument here that trade is just good for humanity even when "unfair". I'm not saying thats the case here but I would not dismiss this as "nothing good comes out of that"

cma256 1y ago
You could argue that point but you would need evidence which showed trade with dictatorships resulted in peace in Europe. To that point, my gut reaction is that peace in Europe is a product of internal politics, MAD, American imperialism, and global trade (in that order). The past fifty years may just be an exceptional footnote. Fifty years is not a significant period of time and the peace we have endured has not been evenly distributed (nor does it appear to be stable).
- insane_dreamer 1y ago
  One can argue about the causes -- and no doubt there are many, the biggest IMO being that WW2 was so horrific that Europeans were willing to do anything to prevent it again -- but there's no disputing that the last 75 years of peace in Europe is unprecedented in its long history of near-continuous inter-state warfare for the past ~2000 years (since "Pax Romana").
  - Ray20 1y ago
    > WW2 was so horrific that Europeans were willing to do anything to prevent it again But this is total childish nonsense. We gained 75 years of peace in Europe not because the war was terrible, but because the entire world was divided between the USA and the USSR. And, as it happened, these two countries decided not to fight each other in a full-scale war.
    - insane_dreamer 1y ago
      No, sorry, but that's incorrect. The reason we gained 75 years of peace is because France and Germany decided to form an alliance to prevent further conflict (considering they had just fought 2 wars in the space of 40 years), and, as a secondary goal, to reduce dependence on the US (de Gaulle being especially eager), starting with the Treaty of Rome, and evolving into the EU.
      - Ray20 1y ago
        Yeah, shure. Germany, which started WW2, and France, which collapsed and capitulated less than a year later. There have been no wars in Europe for 75 years because for those 75 years the United States single-handedly decided with whom Europe would start wars.

cma256 1y ago

You could argue that point but you would need evidence which showed trade with dictatorships resulted in peace in Europe. To that point, my gut reaction is that peace in Europe is a product of internal politics, MAD, American imperialism, and global trade (in that order). The past fifty years may just be an exceptional footnote. Fifty years is not a significant period of time and the peace we have endured has not been evenly distributed (nor does it appear to be stable).

insane_dreamer 1y ago
One can argue about the causes -- and no doubt there are many, the biggest IMO being that WW2 was so horrific that Europeans were willing to do anything to prevent it again -- but there's no disputing that the last 75 years of peace in Europe is unprecedented in its long history of near-continuous inter-state warfare for the past ~2000 years (since "Pax Romana").
- Ray20 1y ago
  > WW2 was so horrific that Europeans were willing to do anything to prevent it again But this is total childish nonsense. We gained 75 years of peace in Europe not because the war was terrible, but because the entire world was divided between the USA and the USSR. And, as it happened, these two countries decided not to fight each other in a full-scale war.
  - insane_dreamer 1y ago
    No, sorry, but that's incorrect. The reason we gained 75 years of peace is because France and Germany decided to form an alliance to prevent further conflict (considering they had just fought 2 wars in the space of 40 years), and, as a secondary goal, to reduce dependence on the US (de Gaulle being especially eager), starting with the Treaty of Rome, and evolving into the EU.
    - Ray20 1y ago
      Yeah, shure. Germany, which started WW2, and France, which collapsed and capitulated less than a year later. There have been no wars in Europe for 75 years because for those 75 years the United States single-handedly decided with whom Europe would start wars.