4 ms·

As a "Steve Jobs would", I'm pretty sure that not launching half baked products was very high in his priority list

InclinedPlane 14y ago
Imagine the level of shouting there would be at Apple from Jobs after the iOS 6 maps fuckup. Is there anyway whatsoever that anyone at Apple is feeling that much heat right now?
taligent 14y ago
Why does this nonsense keep being perpetuated on here. Steve Jobs routinely launched products that were less than perfect. Hence his quote, "real artists ship".
- topbanana 14y ago
  Can you point to something (in the iOS line) that was as broken as this? I can't think of anything
  - smashing 14y ago
    The initial iPhone OS, before it was called iOS, shipped without copy and paste or 3G at a time when all mobile operating systems had both copy and paste as well as shipped with 3G on their premium models. The first iPhone certainly qualified as a Premium Device.
  - bruceboughton 14y ago
    The original iPhone didn't have copy/paste (and it was right to ship it).
    - akandiah 14y ago
      But it didn't break any existing functionality did it? There just wasn't any!
  - rmc 14y ago
    If you held the the iPhone 4 the wrong way, the signal would plummet. This was under Job's watch.
  - silvestrov 14y ago
    Outside the iOS line, Mac OS X 10.0 (Cheetah) is a good example of something that shipped before being really done. In the iOS line, I'd say iPad 1 is woefully underpowered with RAM. Browsing in Safari suffers due to repaints when scrolling and page reloads. In 20/20 hinsight, shipping iOS without an SDK and even without a plan for an SDK. If they haven't introduced the SDK, iPhone would probably never had taken off.
  - culturestate 14y ago
    MobileMe.
  - rmc 14y ago
    Also, if things didn't go the way they did, then the lack of flash on the original iPhone might have been viewed that way if Apple had to back peddle. (In retrospect, Apple won that gamble, because it wasn't that much of a problem).
  - zubiaur 14y ago
    The early firmwares were buggy as hell, it would crash from time to time. Heck it was imposible to type with keyboard lag that could be as bad as 10 SECONDS. My first tweet ever was abot how firmware 2.1 fixed many of this issues, mind you this was 4 years ago
- mikeash 14y ago
  The trouble here is that, from a user's perspective, this isn't a launch. It's version 6.0 of a product, by which we expect the kinks to be thoroughly worked out. By replacing Maps with something new that was presented as just an upgrade, they put themselves in a really tough spot that they don't normally do.
nirvana 14y ago
I've not seen Apple launch a half baked product in quite a long time, not like the crap that, for instance, google still ships and calls "android". iOS Maps with its first iteration is far better than google maps, after 8 years. The company is not perfect, but the idea that something is "half backed" is just standard issue FUD from the apple bashers. Remember how the iPod was going to fail? The iPhone had "no chance"? The iPas "just a big ipod touch" and "reminds me of a feminine product?" I really wonder if people foget all this nonsense. Remember "antennagate" and consume rreports selling out its integrity and honor for page views? Noticed a pattern?
- pooriaazimi 14y ago
  Nirvana: I usually (50-60% of the time) agree with your comments here on HN, but this time... I disagree with your first, second, third, fourth and fifth paragraphs (too much hyperbole!). Android might've been bad, but is quite allright now (in many areas, including "intents" it's far ahead of iOS. Though in ease of use, ease of development and things like Core2D/CoreData lags behind iOS). iOS maps is good IMO, but worse than current GMaps. The company is not infallible. Apple has the best advertisement of any company (IMO), but remember those unbelievably stupid and corny Olympics ads?
  - nirvana 14y ago
    I don't really care to debate it with you, because despite making a compelling argument-- that people always bash apple products when they first come out, including several notalbe examples (iPod, iPad, iPhone) where people said they were terrible... my "crime" of not bashing Apple and pointing out that android sucks (and it does. people use it for ideological reasons, I'm convinced, or because they've never used an iPhone.) my comment is sitting at -4. HN is a site overrun with mindless, ideologically driven jerks. Your comment was fair, but the censorship means that only ideologically approved opinions are seen, and everything else is cut, so there's no point in participating here at all.
    - tisme 14y ago
      You're being silly. A very large majority of HN users use Apple products in one form or another. I can't speak for the rest but I am just not automatically going to accept each and every thing that any entity does as good. And that includes Apple. If you think everybody around you is an idiot on a forum that contains an extremely large number of well educated and tactful people then I think you should consider the possibility that the problem lies with you. Calling the majority of HN "mindless ideologically driven jerks" is collective name-calling, something that is simply not done here. If there is 'no point in participating here at all' then why do you continue with your endless non-coherent tirades?
batista 14y ago
Steve Jobs: "If you're not failing once in a while, you're not trying hard enough". iPod: "No wireless, less space than a Nomad. Lame". iPhone: "What? No copy/paste? No third party apps?" OS X 10.0/.1 shall we even go there? Apple's way was always one of iterative enhancement. The only reason for the current regression was that they started from zero, were the previous offering was from a third party competitor (Google) with 8+ years head-start in mapping.

Imagine the level of shouting there would be at Apple from Jobs after the iOS 6 maps fuckup. Is there anyway whatsoever that anyone at Apple is feeling that much heat right now?

taligent 14y ago

Why does this nonsense keep being perpetuated on here. Steve Jobs routinely launched products that were less than perfect. Hence his quote, "real artists ship".

topbanana 14y ago
Can you point to something (in the iOS line) that was as broken as this? I can't think of anything
- smashing 14y ago
  The initial iPhone OS, before it was called iOS, shipped without copy and paste or 3G at a time when all mobile operating systems had both copy and paste as well as shipped with 3G on their premium models. The first iPhone certainly qualified as a Premium Device.
- bruceboughton 14y ago
  The original iPhone didn't have copy/paste (and it was right to ship it).
  - akandiah 14y ago
    But it didn't break any existing functionality did it? There just wasn't any!
- rmc 14y ago
  If you held the the iPhone 4 the wrong way, the signal would plummet. This was under Job's watch.
- silvestrov 14y ago
  Outside the iOS line, Mac OS X 10.0 (Cheetah) is a good example of something that shipped before being really done. In the iOS line, I'd say iPad 1 is woefully underpowered with RAM. Browsing in Safari suffers due to repaints when scrolling and page reloads. In 20/20 hinsight, shipping iOS without an SDK and even without a plan for an SDK. If they haven't introduced the SDK, iPhone would probably never had taken off.
- culturestate 14y ago
  MobileMe.
- rmc 14y ago
  Also, if things didn't go the way they did, then the lack of flash on the original iPhone might have been viewed that way if Apple had to back peddle. (In retrospect, Apple won that gamble, because it wasn't that much of a problem).
- zubiaur 14y ago
  The early firmwares were buggy as hell, it would crash from time to time. Heck it was imposible to type with keyboard lag that could be as bad as 10 SECONDS. My first tweet ever was abot how firmware 2.1 fixed many of this issues, mind you this was 4 years ago
mikeash 14y ago
The trouble here is that, from a user's perspective, this isn't a launch. It's version 6.0 of a product, by which we expect the kinks to be thoroughly worked out. By replacing Maps with something new that was presented as just an upgrade, they put themselves in a really tough spot that they don't normally do.

nirvana 14y ago

I've not seen Apple launch a half baked product in quite a long time, not like the crap that, for instance, google still ships and calls "android". iOS Maps with its first iteration is far better than google maps, after 8 years. The company is not perfect, but the idea that something is "half backed" is just standard issue FUD from the apple bashers. Remember how the iPod was going to fail? The iPhone had "no chance"? The iPas "just a big ipod touch" and "reminds me of a feminine product?" I really wonder if people foget all this nonsense. Remember "antennagate" and consume rreports selling out its integrity and honor for page views? Noticed a pattern?

pooriaazimi 14y ago
Nirvana: I usually (50-60% of the time) agree with your comments here on HN, but this time... I disagree with your first, second, third, fourth and fifth paragraphs (too much hyperbole!). Android might've been bad, but is quite allright now (in many areas, including "intents" it's far ahead of iOS. Though in ease of use, ease of development and things like Core2D/CoreData lags behind iOS). iOS maps is good IMO, but worse than current GMaps. The company is not infallible. Apple has the best advertisement of any company (IMO), but remember those unbelievably stupid and corny Olympics ads?
- nirvana 14y ago
  I don't really care to debate it with you, because despite making a compelling argument-- that people always bash apple products when they first come out, including several notalbe examples (iPod, iPad, iPhone) where people said they were terrible... my "crime" of not bashing Apple and pointing out that android sucks (and it does. people use it for ideological reasons, I'm convinced, or because they've never used an iPhone.) my comment is sitting at -4. HN is a site overrun with mindless, ideologically driven jerks. Your comment was fair, but the censorship means that only ideologically approved opinions are seen, and everything else is cut, so there's no point in participating here at all.
  - tisme 14y ago
    You're being silly. A very large majority of HN users use Apple products in one form or another. I can't speak for the rest but I am just not automatically going to accept each and every thing that any entity does as good. And that includes Apple. If you think everybody around you is an idiot on a forum that contains an extremely large number of well educated and tactful people then I think you should consider the possibility that the problem lies with you. Calling the majority of HN "mindless ideologically driven jerks" is collective name-calling, something that is simply not done here. If there is 'no point in participating here at all' then why do you continue with your endless non-coherent tirades?

batista 14y ago

Steve Jobs: "If you're not failing once in a while, you're not trying hard enough". iPod: "No wireless, less space than a Nomad. Lame". iPhone: "What? No copy/paste? No third party apps?" OS X 10.0/.1 shall we even go there? Apple's way was always one of iterative enhancement. The only reason for the current regression was that they started from zero, were the previous offering was from a third party competitor (Google) with 8+ years head-start in mapping.