5 ms·

By talking to those apathetic and talking to those that think this isn't a problem. There is a war for your mind.

by mempko 1y ago

zahlman 1y ago
[flagged]
- blks 1y ago
  ICE actively targets and arrests people who are legally staying in the US as well, detaining them for weeks without due process.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    What exactly is your evidence for this claim? What do you consider to be their basis for such targeting, and what is your evidence for that claim?
    - pchristensen 1y ago
      Off the top of my head, Kilmar Abrego Garcia had a judicial stay against exportation and the administration said his deportation was an error, but he spent weeks in an El Salvadoran prison. And there was the Korean battery factory workers in Georgia. There were also more cases in the district court record that led to the Kavanaugh Stops decision: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-kavanaugh-stops-supreme-court-lawsuit.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-... There have been so many cases documented so thoroughly. All you have to do is believe that it's not impossible and the reporting does the rest.
      - zahlman 1y ago
        How does that demonstrate targeting people whose presence is legal?
        wredcoll 1y ago
        What a weird attempt at semantics. They "target" people based on skin color/appearance/attitude/language, completely ignoring the legalities. Thats the issue.
        zahlman 1y ago
        It is not semantics. They are not doing any such "targeting"; they are using this information among other factors, in a context where it objectively is rational to use that information, and it has already been found in court (hence "Kavanaugh Stops decision") that this is lawful. (Granted, this is only a stay against an injunction.) I gave details at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45581400 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45581400 .
        pchristensen 1y ago
        It demonstrates carelessness in only targeting people whose presence is illegal, with legal residents being collateral damage.
- electroglyph 1y ago
  i'm fine with upholding laws, but secret police are bullshit. we have a serious problem with police accountability in the USA, they shouldn't be allowed to obscure their badge number and face, as that only encourages bad behavior.
  - mlrtime 1y ago
    ICE is not police, they are federal law enforcers. There is a difference. I 100% agree, if an ICE agent breaks the law they should be held accountable just like a local police officer.
    - wredcoll 1y ago
      > ICE is not police, they are federal law enforcers. There is a difference. This difference matters how exactly?
- ok_dad 1y ago
  The scary part is how this is being done, not that immigration laws are being “followed” (they aren’t). Masked men roaming the streets arresting even US citizens without a warrant. Going into court rooms and houses of worship to do it. Using violence on unarmed peaceful protesters, regardless of the protest legality. Combine it with the Republican inability to follow the law and the current rhetoric about “antifa” and how democrats are terrorists. That’s why this isn’t good and people are scared. It could turn into civil war at this point, with very little spark. Thankfully you’re from Canada and your stake in the matter is fairly nil.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    Can you show that they have arrested US citizens without reasonable suspicion? Can you otherwise show that law is not being followed? From what I can tell, they are legally allowed to wear masks for this. ICE's webpage also is adamant that they legally do not always require a warrant (https://www.ice.gov/immigration-enforcement-frequently-asked-questions https://www.ice.gov/immigration-enforcement-frequently-asked...), and Snopes agrees (https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/21/ice-arrest-people-warrants/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/21/ice-arrest-people-war...). Entering private property without a warrant does seem like it would be unlawful, yes. Fourth Amendment, yes? Do you know of court cases scheduled to make this argument? Regarding protests and the response, that very much contradicts the video evidence I've seen. There is no rhetoric, as far as I can tell, about "how democrats are terrorists", except in the sense that there equally is rhetoric about "how republicans are fascists". There is rhetoric about antifa, no quotes, because (among other things) of the demonstrable existence of protesters using black bloc tactics, explicitly describing themselves with that label, and explicitly stating a goal of countering supposed "fascism". Do you otherwise disagree about the general principles of setting and enforcing rules for immigration?
    - pchristensen 1y ago
      This took longer to cut and paste than it did to find on Google. Arresting and detaining citizens based only on race/language: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-kavanaugh-stops-supreme-court-lawsuit.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-... Rhetoric from Donald Trump: - https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/trump-calls-democrats-the-party-of-hate-evil-and-satan-in-late-night-truth-social-rant/ar-AA1NMGYq?ocid=BingNewsSerp https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/trump-calls-de... - https://apnews.com/article/trump-executive-order-domestic-networks-democrats-9dfc1257ee12cbd376fd53c3ad084327 https://apnews.com/article/trump-executive-order-domestic-ne... Rhetoric from Stephen Miller: https://en.as.com/latest_news/he-can-dish-it-out-but-he-cant-take-it-examples-of-stephen-miller-calling-democrats-fascists-n/ https://en.as.com/latest_news/he-can-dish-it-out-but-he-cant...
- staffordrj 1y ago
  > An important part of the premise of "Don't Be a Sucker" is that the Hungarian storyteller is an American citizen who followed all the necessary legal processes to gain citizenship. An important part missing from your argument is a comparison of how difficult it was to gain citizenship then and now.
  - zahlman 1y ago
    No, nothing about the argument considers that comparison relevant. The claim includes a provision that nations are allowed to make the process easier or harder, according to their perceived needs and aims.

By talking to those apathetic and talking to those that think this isn't a problem. There is a war for your mind.

by mempko 1y ago

By talking to those apathetic and talking to those that think this isn't a problem. There is a war for your mind.

zahlman 1y ago

[flagged]

blks 1y ago
ICE actively targets and arrests people who are legally staying in the US as well, detaining them for weeks without due process.
- zahlman 1y ago
  What exactly is your evidence for this claim? What do you consider to be their basis for such targeting, and what is your evidence for that claim?
  - pchristensen 1y ago
    Off the top of my head, Kilmar Abrego Garcia had a judicial stay against exportation and the administration said his deportation was an error, but he spent weeks in an El Salvadoran prison. And there was the Korean battery factory workers in Georgia. There were also more cases in the district court record that led to the Kavanaugh Stops decision: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-kavanaugh-stops-supreme-court-lawsuit.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-... There have been so many cases documented so thoroughly. All you have to do is believe that it's not impossible and the reporting does the rest.
    - zahlman 1y ago
      How does that demonstrate targeting people whose presence is legal?
      - wredcoll 1y ago
        What a weird attempt at semantics. They "target" people based on skin color/appearance/attitude/language, completely ignoring the legalities. Thats the issue.
        zahlman 1y ago
        It is not semantics. They are not doing any such "targeting"; they are using this information among other factors, in a context where it objectively is rational to use that information, and it has already been found in court (hence "Kavanaugh Stops decision") that this is lawful. (Granted, this is only a stay against an injunction.) I gave details at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45581400 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45581400 .
      - pchristensen 1y ago
        It demonstrates carelessness in only targeting people whose presence is illegal, with legal residents being collateral damage.
electroglyph 1y ago
i'm fine with upholding laws, but secret police are bullshit. we have a serious problem with police accountability in the USA, they shouldn't be allowed to obscure their badge number and face, as that only encourages bad behavior.
- mlrtime 1y ago
  ICE is not police, they are federal law enforcers. There is a difference. I 100% agree, if an ICE agent breaks the law they should be held accountable just like a local police officer.
  - wredcoll 1y ago
    > ICE is not police, they are federal law enforcers. There is a difference. This difference matters how exactly?
ok_dad 1y ago
The scary part is how this is being done, not that immigration laws are being “followed” (they aren’t). Masked men roaming the streets arresting even US citizens without a warrant. Going into court rooms and houses of worship to do it. Using violence on unarmed peaceful protesters, regardless of the protest legality. Combine it with the Republican inability to follow the law and the current rhetoric about “antifa” and how democrats are terrorists. That’s why this isn’t good and people are scared. It could turn into civil war at this point, with very little spark. Thankfully you’re from Canada and your stake in the matter is fairly nil.
- zahlman 1y ago
  Can you show that they have arrested US citizens without reasonable suspicion? Can you otherwise show that law is not being followed? From what I can tell, they are legally allowed to wear masks for this. ICE's webpage also is adamant that they legally do not always require a warrant (https://www.ice.gov/immigration-enforcement-frequently-asked-questions https://www.ice.gov/immigration-enforcement-frequently-asked...), and Snopes agrees (https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/21/ice-arrest-people-warrants/ https://www.snopes.com/news/2025/06/21/ice-arrest-people-war...). Entering private property without a warrant does seem like it would be unlawful, yes. Fourth Amendment, yes? Do you know of court cases scheduled to make this argument? Regarding protests and the response, that very much contradicts the video evidence I've seen. There is no rhetoric, as far as I can tell, about "how democrats are terrorists", except in the sense that there equally is rhetoric about "how republicans are fascists". There is rhetoric about antifa, no quotes, because (among other things) of the demonstrable existence of protesters using black bloc tactics, explicitly describing themselves with that label, and explicitly stating a goal of countering supposed "fascism". Do you otherwise disagree about the general principles of setting and enforcing rules for immigration?
  - pchristensen 1y ago
    This took longer to cut and paste than it did to find on Google. Arresting and detaining citizens based only on race/language: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-kavanaugh-stops-supreme-court-lawsuit.html https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2025/10/scotus-analysis-... Rhetoric from Donald Trump: - https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/trump-calls-democrats-the-party-of-hate-evil-and-satan-in-late-night-truth-social-rant/ar-AA1NMGYq?ocid=BingNewsSerp https://www.msn.com/en-us/politics/government/trump-calls-de... - https://apnews.com/article/trump-executive-order-domestic-networks-democrats-9dfc1257ee12cbd376fd53c3ad084327 https://apnews.com/article/trump-executive-order-domestic-ne... Rhetoric from Stephen Miller: https://en.as.com/latest_news/he-can-dish-it-out-but-he-cant-take-it-examples-of-stephen-miller-calling-democrats-fascists-n/ https://en.as.com/latest_news/he-can-dish-it-out-but-he-cant...
staffordrj 1y ago
> An important part of the premise of "Don't Be a Sucker" is that the Hungarian storyteller is an American citizen who followed all the necessary legal processes to gain citizenship. An important part missing from your argument is a comparison of how difficult it was to gain citizenship then and now.
- zahlman 1y ago
  No, nothing about the argument considers that comparison relevant. The claim includes a provision that nations are allowed to make the process easier or harder, according to their perceived needs and aims.