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> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used. Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking
by tmnvix 1y ago
> For context, the law that allows this all to happen was passed in 1952 and has never before been used.
Interesting parallel here with China recently invoking - for the first time - their own legislation from the 50's to ban rare earth exports for military uses.
- dylan604 1y agoHow can you say what the minerals were actually used for though is the question I always have in these types of situations. There are multiple uses of the minerals. Since I've now gotten a literal boat load of the minerals from you, I can use those minerals on other things which now frees up my personal source of minerals on the things you didn't want them used in. In the spirit of the agreement, I'm in full compliance all while achieving the thing you didn't want me to achieve. It's nothing but Pilate washing his hands
- dgfitz 1y agoAre you tracking that harvesting REM is a nasty business with a lot of “don’t look” environmental impacts? As such, most countries don’t do it, or have an infrastructure for it.
- dylan604 1y agohttps://rareearthexchanges.com/best-rare-earth-mining-companies-in-the-usa/ https://rareearthexchanges.com/best-rare-earth-mining-compan... Plenty of US companies ready and willing. They've finally gotten an administration that is of like mind on screw the environment and dig dig dig.
- dgfitz 1y agoSo, you agree?
- dylan604 1y agoAgree with what? What is it that you think is a gotcha here?
- dgfitz 1y agoMost countries don’t do it, including the US. “Ready and willing” is quite the turn of phrase.
- dylan604 1y agoI've seen US numbers along 70-80% is imported. That leaves 20-30% domestic. Some of the REEs are 100% imported, so that's a different issue. But you seem to be implying that the US is 100% importing all REEs with no domestic production at all. That's not true. Yes, some production is slowed due to environmental issues. Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's". You keep yours in the ground until you have to get it. You have some small production just to keep the know-how, but you keep the stove down to a simmer from a boil.
- tmnvix 1y ago> Some of it is a different nature along the lines of "why mine yours when you can buy someone else's". You keep yours in the ground until you have to get it. My understanding is that a large part of the issue is processing capacity/ability - not mining of the ore. In fact, a significant amount of ore mined in the US is sent to China for processing. I don't think it's a simple case of the US standing up some processing plants in 1-2 years. If that were the case, wouldn't you think it would've happened by now? Is US leadership that bad that they failed to address this risk? Or - more likely - is it because solving the issue will take a lot more than some quick investment? This is a huge issue for the US MIC. Plans (e.g. with regard to Iran) are going back to the drawing board for sure.
- phil21 1y ago> Is US leadership that bad that they failed to address this risk? I mean, quite obviously? Borne by the simple fact of... here we are discussing it? It doesn't matter how easy, quick, or hard it is right now. What matters is leadership is so bad it was allowed to reach this point to begin with, and even a decade ago it was immediately obvious that it was a giant vulnerability that has not even started on beyond corrected in any meaningful way.
- markus_zhang 1y agoUS also needs all those factories and machinery to process the stuff.
- fakedang 1y agoUSA does not have the refining capacity which will take another 8 years to build out.
- kapone 1y agoWrong. We don’t need to build refining capacity. We just need to remind China that who’s the big dog, which we seem to be doing. They’ll fall in line quickly enough.
- kaibee 1y agoAye yea, the war will be over by Christmas! I've heard this one before.
- dylan604 1y agoOperation Warp Speed 2.0
- magicalhippo 1y agoRemember, Mommy, I'm off to get a Commie, So send me a salami, And try to smile somehow. I'll look for you when the war is over --- An hour and a half from now https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Songs_and_Lyrics_(Lehrer)/So_Long,_Mom https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Songs_and_Lyrics_(Lehrer)/So_...
- fn-mote 1y agoI really cannot tell if this is sarcasm (seems not?) or trolling (sounds like it). How are we reminding China that the US is a big dog? By imposing tariffs? By demonstrating our ability to do work domestically that they believe us unwilling or incapable of doing? What does this even mean, to be a big dog in the modern world? It seems more like a large ship listing to one side … if it collapses there will be a lot of small ships damaged in the wake.
- csomar 1y ago> We just need to remind China that who’s the big dog, which we seem to be doing. Time to short the US dollar and load up on Bitcoin.
- walkabout 1y agoProbably not an awesome sign if multiple actors are invoking never-used laws that were created while WWII was still fresh on everyone's mind.
- markus_zhang 1y agoLet’s hope this one is still cold.
- awesome_dude 1y agos/while WWII was still fresh/the cold war was
- trhway 1y agoI always wondered how the large unified world of Roman Empire with running water and sewer fell apart (and backwards) into multitude of small feudal pieces with no technology to speak of for the 1000 years after Roman Empire. I think our modern civilization is probably at the beginning of similar process.
- selimthegrim 1y agoWhy stop there why not Indus Valley Civilization
- trhway 1y agoour knowledge (at least my knowledge of it) is much much smaller that that of Roman Empire, and in particular i don't know whether the fall of that civilization demonstrated the effect of splitting into multitude technologically inferior pieces stagnating for such a long time after that.
- markus_zhang 1y agoI think we are fine in term of infra -- I don't work as a civil engineer, but considering companies in my city repair the roads every year /s they probably retain the knowledge.
- fakedang 1y agoExactly. Building roads and aqueducts were empire-level knowledge skills in Ancient Rome, performed by the army legions. Thankfully they're highly localized skills today.
- galangalalgol 1y agoHow easy is the machinery and tools needed to keep all the infrastructure running? Earth movers are pretty maintainable and barely depreciate. Survey tools though? They have gotten famcy right? Water management has gone quite high tech in some ways. I could see them falling apart kind of like when some hospitals had to revert to paper tape logs. It didn't scale anymore.
- this_user 1y agoThat whole REE thing is more of a scare tactic than anything. REEs are really not all that rare, and the current imports of REEs into the US are worth around $200-250M annually. That is millions, not billions. It's actually a laughably small amount. The main reason that it's mostly China producing them may simply be due to the fact that the volumes are so small that building your own industry is not really worth it.
- tmnvix 1y agoDollar value is not the point. For the US MIC this matters a lot. There are not really any ready replacements for some vital weapons components at a time when US weapons stockpiles have been heavily depleted.
- kapone 1y agoSo, we’ll pay more and still get them. You think China is the only one that can game the system? Who’s got the money?
- tmnvix 1y agoThe usual solutions - money and violence - are not applicable here. China doesn't need the money and can't be bullied. Sources other than China are not going to cut it in the short and mid term. This is a geopolitical nightmare for the US and deserves more media attention.
- mgh95 1y agoThere is a new facility coming online from MP Materials (see https://fortworthreport.org/mp-materials-awarded-58-5-million-to-advance-rare-earth-magnet-manufacturing-plans-to-open-fort-worth-facility-this-summer https://fortworthreport.org/mp-materials-awarded-58-5-millio...) later this year that serves dual purpose customers (GM and the US gov)
- potato3732842 1y agoIf we really needed them they'd cut through the red tape and mine them here, clean water act, screeching idiots, NIMBYs, everything else be damned.
- fakedang 1y agoThis is it.
- infinet 1y agoNetherlands imported more CeO2 (a rare earth) from China than any other country, with 517 metric tons during the first half of 2025.
- whp_wessel 1y agowith Dutch stats like this it’s always important to note what’s for Dutch use or transporting through the Port of Rotterdam.
- infinet 1y agoIt's likely for Dutch. China exported 2414 metric tons of CeO2 in that period. The top 4 destinations are Netherlands (517 tons), Italy (438 tons), Japan (353 tons), USA (284 tons). So others can import it themselves just fine.
- legacynl 1y agoWho cares what their legislation says. Xi and ccp can change that at will at anytime.
- ta20240528 1y agoSo can Trump and USA. If the west want's the other 7 billion to care, you're going to have to find some principles and live by them. Without exception.
- legacynl 1y agoSame dude!