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You can still side-load signed apps. It's a similar limitation to macOS which won't let you run apps that Apple hasn't signed without command line or control pa

You can still side-load signed apps. It's a similar limitation to macOS which won't let you run apps that Apple hasn't signed without command line or control panel shenanigans. Compared to iOS, Android still has the advantage of installing your own full browser (like Firefox) with full-fat ad blocking (uBlock Origin, not Lite). iOS is Safari-only right now though, in theory, some alternative engines may be available in Europe later.

TuringTest 1y ago
If they need to be signed by Google, that's not side loading by definition; it's using an alternate Google channel.
koolala 1y ago
What your describing isn't "side-loading". Doing that means the apps go through Google's chain of control. Please don't let them redefine the word.
ptrl600 1y ago
With macOS you run "sudo spctl --master disable", and then you can run whatever you want without sending PII to Apple. Is that the case with the new Android stuff?
- flawn 1y ago
  No, the closest would be rooting your phone but then you can't use banking apps properly (there are loopholes to spoof integrity but they are slowly coming to an end as verification runs on TEE)
  - jhasse 1y ago
    Couldn't you install with adb without rooting?
- jhasse 1y ago
  We don't know yet. At the moment side-loading still works without restrictions.
- jezek2 1y ago
  MacOS can run unsigned apps with GateKeeper active, no need to disable it. Attempt to run the app, then go into security settings, scroll down and click on "Open anyway". And before Sequoia a right click -> Open was sufficient. On M1+ devices it might also need "ad-hoc signing" if the developer hasn't done it (not required for Intel binaries). This is not a true signing, it just inserts a cryptographic checksum into the binary, no actual signing is involved.
_ea1k 1y ago
Agreed. While I do not like this move, ti is weird to me how far people are going in their criticism. The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.
- cnity 1y ago
  "The perfect should not be the enemy of the good" is the wrong analogy here. It's more like "death by a thousand cuts". Limitations on free computer usage are like a ratcheting mechanism: they mostly go in one direction.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
lieks 1y ago
You can install full uBlock Origin in the Orion browser, on iOS. It also has decent built-in ad blocking (though uBlock Origin is still better). I had been thinking for a long time to switch to Android (GrapheneOS, probably) when my current iPhone 13 dies, but this whole thing with "sideloading" on Android is making me reconsider. If I can't have the freedom I want either way, might as well get longer support, polished animation and better default privacy (though I still need to opt-out of a bunch of stuff).
- whycome 1y ago
  How did Orion sidestep the safari WebKit requirements?
  - lieks 1y ago
    They didn't. They implemented the WebExtensions API for WebKit. It's not complete (e.g. Stylus doesn't work yet), but it's enough to run uBlock Origin.
- palata 1y ago
  Well GrapheneOS is not Google-certified, so it is not impacted by this :-).
  - bitwize 1y ago
    AOSP releases are going to stop (or become late and cursory like Darwin releases), and new Pixels will not be able to run non-Google-certified operating systems :)
    - Pfhortune 1y ago
      > and new Pixels will not be able to run non-Google-certified operating systems :) I haven't heard about this. Source? I think there has been much _speculation_ around this, but no proof that I am aware of.
      - 1y ago
cortesoft 1y ago
> It's a similar limitation to macOS which won't let you run apps that Apple hasn't signed without command line or control panel shenanigans Can you do something similar to load unsigned apps on Android?
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

TuringTest 1y ago

If they need to be signed by Google, that's not side loading by definition; it's using an alternate Google channel.

koolala 1y ago

What your describing isn't "side-loading". Doing that means the apps go through Google's chain of control. Please don't let them redefine the word.

ptrl600 1y ago

With macOS you run "sudo spctl --master disable", and then you can run whatever you want without sending PII to Apple. Is that the case with the new Android stuff?

flawn 1y ago
No, the closest would be rooting your phone but then you can't use banking apps properly (there are loopholes to spoof integrity but they are slowly coming to an end as verification runs on TEE)
- jhasse 1y ago
  Couldn't you install with adb without rooting?
jhasse 1y ago
We don't know yet. At the moment side-loading still works without restrictions.
jezek2 1y ago
MacOS can run unsigned apps with GateKeeper active, no need to disable it. Attempt to run the app, then go into security settings, scroll down and click on "Open anyway". And before Sequoia a right click -> Open was sufficient. On M1+ devices it might also need "ad-hoc signing" if the developer hasn't done it (not required for Intel binaries). This is not a true signing, it just inserts a cryptographic checksum into the binary, no actual signing is involved.

_ea1k 1y ago

Agreed. While I do not like this move, ti is weird to me how far people are going in their criticism. The perfect should not be the enemy of the good.

cnity 1y ago
"The perfect should not be the enemy of the good" is the wrong analogy here. It's more like "death by a thousand cuts". Limitations on free computer usage are like a ratcheting mechanism: they mostly go in one direction.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

lieks 1y ago

You can install full uBlock Origin in the Orion browser, on iOS. It also has decent built-in ad blocking (though uBlock Origin is still better). I had been thinking for a long time to switch to Android (GrapheneOS, probably) when my current iPhone 13 dies, but this whole thing with "sideloading" on Android is making me reconsider. If I can't have the freedom I want either way, might as well get longer support, polished animation and better default privacy (though I still need to opt-out of a bunch of stuff).

whycome 1y ago
How did Orion sidestep the safari WebKit requirements?
- lieks 1y ago
  They didn't. They implemented the WebExtensions API for WebKit. It's not complete (e.g. Stylus doesn't work yet), but it's enough to run uBlock Origin.
palata 1y ago
Well GrapheneOS is not Google-certified, so it is not impacted by this :-).
- bitwize 1y ago
  AOSP releases are going to stop (or become late and cursory like Darwin releases), and new Pixels will not be able to run non-Google-certified operating systems :)
  - Pfhortune 1y ago
    > and new Pixels will not be able to run non-Google-certified operating systems :) I haven't heard about this. Source? I think there has been much _speculation_ around this, but no proof that I am aware of.
    - 1y ago

cortesoft 1y ago

> It's a similar limitation to macOS which won't let you run apps that Apple hasn't signed without command line or control panel shenanigans Can you do something similar to load unsigned apps on Android?

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]