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The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the modern world, and that is that most people have been separated from their families due to the l

The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the modern world, and that is that most people have been separated from their families due to the logistics of finding paying work. Some of my relatives in the 90s, things weren't much better without smartphones. You had long distance calling and TV, or otherwise you were alone. One of my relatives attempted suicide when she was very young, you can guess why. But yes, it obviously makes sense to use smartphones intelligently. Meta products and Tik Tok are poison for the mind. And unless you're at home it's a good idea to just shut the smartphone off.

ProllyInfamous 1y ago
I'm the only middle-aged person I know that doesn't use/carry a smart phone (I also don't use email). >One of my relatives attempted suicide when she was very young, you can guess why. This misses that even more young ladies are attempting, today, albeit for entirely different reasons. I'll let you guess why.
- fsiefken 1y ago
  If you don't use e-mail, what do you use for electronic one to one communication or do you write letters and sent them by post?
  - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
    >Write letters and send them by post. Lots of memes/postcards. I also have a part-time secretary (only for scheduling/mailing). If I need to "sign up" somewhere, I use a burner/temporary email. Free-est man alive.
    - fsiefken 1y ago
      That's great and that's what I aspire, but as it's so easy and quick typing and sending a mail I just send it like that. I remember the days before when I hand wrote the occasional letter and delivered it myself or sent it by post. Would you consider handwriting a letter and then fax2email it also an option, if not why not? Writing a letter can be much more intentional, but the sending process could be automated. I remember I bought a german book with bundled talks/essays at the Goetheanum bookshop last year about how to relate to the digital revolution. Distracted by the internet I haven't had time yet to read the book. "Das Ende des Menschen? Wege durch und aus dem Transhumanismus" (The End of Man? Ways Through and Out of Transhumanism), edited by Ariane Eichenberg and Christiane Haid.
      - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
        Often I'll include a stamped postcard, addressed to my PO Box, because I think there is something important about paying for the privilege to communicate with somebody off-line [the stamp]. It forces your message to be more concise/worthwhile. There is also something sweet about having a built-in delay for the message to "gestate" — perhaps if politically-related, your point is even further reinforced as "prescient," as the pre-dated postmark attests (upon delayed arrival). Perhaps you're wrong and wasted a stamp. ---- Mostly I agree with (I believe) P.G.'s premise that email is nothing more than a to-do list that anybody can add on to. I do not wish to ever be immediately reachable, again, and this is an expensive freedom/lifestyle. I am simply too angry to have access to a system [email] where I can immediately tell anybody in the world how I feel about something [and did for a quarter-century]. If something really bothers me, it has to be worth a postage stamp (I usually write postcards, but also have thousands of FOREVER Stamps™).
- Desafinado 1y ago
  It's not a competition between eras to see which is worse, my point is only that smartphones fill a need for isolated adults. That can be true and they can still pose a problem for teenagers, it's two separate issues. I find most of the debate on smartphone use tends to fall on the extreme. Why not find a happy middle ground and recognize that they do have valid uses?
erxam 1y ago
> The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the modern world, and that is that most people have been separated from their families due to the logistics of finding paying work. I agree. Tech-minimalists seem to forget that not everybody lives in some heavenly small mountain-side commune. The article says a lot of things about being 'present', 'mindful', 'nurturing relationships' and 'enjoying the world'. I don't want to be present. In fact, I want the complete opposite. I want to be literally anywhere else 99.99% of the time. If I look at my phone and get to look at nice things, talk to incredible people and imagine lots of wish-fulfillment scenarios, I can pretend for a while that not everything is absolute dogshit 24/7. What am I supposed to enjoy, exactly?
- homebrewer 1y ago
  Yep, same. For those of us living in heavily polluted industrial shitholes, in undeveloped countries, with absolutely nothing of value to do outside and no easy way to get out of the city in a reasonable amount of time, the internet is an absolute godsend. I'm pretty sure I would be an alcoholic, or wouldn't be alive at all if it wasn't available.
- nunodonato 1y ago
  Thanks for bringing this up, it's a great alternative POV. I think what is meant is that if the phone is acting not only as an "escape" but also as a way of avoiding dealing with things or even changing them, then it is, in fact, harming you from the possibility of improving your condition. Not for me to judge who is in that position or not, but I would definitely say many people use it as an avoidance rather than having to deal with hard stuff. Change is hard, always was, even before phones. Playing the victim card is always easier: my life sucks, there's nothing I can do, at least my phone keeps me happier. In many cases, there is always something you can do if you are willing to put the effort. But then again, not for me to judge. Some people are in really tough places.
- everdrive 1y ago
  Smart phones are the best and the worst glued together. None of the past solutions came with a crack dealer nudging you to ruin your life and waste your time every few seconds.
kakacik 1y ago
The most addicted family-as-a-whole to the screens I know of live literally 100m from each other (3 generations). Suffice to say this is far from their only addiction. What you describe is certainly true for some people, but I am having hard time believing this is majority. I live long term far away from family and an occasional whatsapp video call is covering our digital meeting needs. Most people are simply too weak mentally to resist various self-forming addictions and don't care about these topics at all.
- Desafinado 1y ago
  It isn't so much about the smartphone replacing family as it is about phones giving us something to do in our homes in lieu of the presence of other people. Even a family that lives close to each other is separated in space by different homes and will often find themselves alone. But their situation will be much better than someone with no family around. They have the option to see each other, many don't. I think the more detailed point is that we're largely atomized these days into separate physical spaces where we're often alone, or confined to a small number of people. Smartphones and computers make it a hell of a lot easier to break through that problem.

ProllyInfamous 1y ago

I'm the only middle-aged person I know that doesn't use/carry a smart phone (I also don't use email). >One of my relatives attempted suicide when she was very young, you can guess why. This misses that even more young ladies are attempting, today, albeit for entirely different reasons. I'll let you guess why.

fsiefken 1y ago
If you don't use e-mail, what do you use for electronic one to one communication or do you write letters and sent them by post?
- ProllyInfamous 1y ago
  >Write letters and send them by post. Lots of memes/postcards. I also have a part-time secretary (only for scheduling/mailing). If I need to "sign up" somewhere, I use a burner/temporary email. Free-est man alive.
  - fsiefken 1y ago
    That's great and that's what I aspire, but as it's so easy and quick typing and sending a mail I just send it like that. I remember the days before when I hand wrote the occasional letter and delivered it myself or sent it by post. Would you consider handwriting a letter and then fax2email it also an option, if not why not? Writing a letter can be much more intentional, but the sending process could be automated. I remember I bought a german book with bundled talks/essays at the Goetheanum bookshop last year about how to relate to the digital revolution. Distracted by the internet I haven't had time yet to read the book. "Das Ende des Menschen? Wege durch und aus dem Transhumanismus" (The End of Man? Ways Through and Out of Transhumanism), edited by Ariane Eichenberg and Christiane Haid.
    - ProllyInfamous 1y ago
      Often I'll include a stamped postcard, addressed to my PO Box, because I think there is something important about paying for the privilege to communicate with somebody off-line [the stamp]. It forces your message to be more concise/worthwhile. There is also something sweet about having a built-in delay for the message to "gestate" — perhaps if politically-related, your point is even further reinforced as "prescient," as the pre-dated postmark attests (upon delayed arrival). Perhaps you're wrong and wasted a stamp. ---- Mostly I agree with (I believe) P.G.'s premise that email is nothing more than a to-do list that anybody can add on to. I do not wish to ever be immediately reachable, again, and this is an expensive freedom/lifestyle. I am simply too angry to have access to a system [email] where I can immediately tell anybody in the world how I feel about something [and did for a quarter-century]. If something really bothers me, it has to be worth a postage stamp (I usually write postcards, but also have thousands of FOREVER Stamps™).
Desafinado 1y ago
It's not a competition between eras to see which is worse, my point is only that smartphones fill a need for isolated adults. That can be true and they can still pose a problem for teenagers, it's two separate issues. I find most of the debate on smartphone use tends to fall on the extreme. Why not find a happy middle ground and recognize that they do have valid uses?

erxam 1y ago

> The opposing viewpoint is that smartphones do fill a need of the modern world, and that is that most people have been separated from their families due to the logistics of finding paying work. I agree. Tech-minimalists seem to forget that not everybody lives in some heavenly small mountain-side commune. The article says a lot of things about being 'present', 'mindful', 'nurturing relationships' and 'enjoying the world'. I don't want to be present. In fact, I want the complete opposite. I want to be literally anywhere else 99.99% of the time. If I look at my phone and get to look at nice things, talk to incredible people and imagine lots of wish-fulfillment scenarios, I can pretend for a while that not everything is absolute dogshit 24/7. What am I supposed to enjoy, exactly?

homebrewer 1y ago
Yep, same. For those of us living in heavily polluted industrial shitholes, in undeveloped countries, with absolutely nothing of value to do outside and no easy way to get out of the city in a reasonable amount of time, the internet is an absolute godsend. I'm pretty sure I would be an alcoholic, or wouldn't be alive at all if it wasn't available.
nunodonato 1y ago
Thanks for bringing this up, it's a great alternative POV. I think what is meant is that if the phone is acting not only as an "escape" but also as a way of avoiding dealing with things or even changing them, then it is, in fact, harming you from the possibility of improving your condition. Not for me to judge who is in that position or not, but I would definitely say many people use it as an avoidance rather than having to deal with hard stuff. Change is hard, always was, even before phones. Playing the victim card is always easier: my life sucks, there's nothing I can do, at least my phone keeps me happier. In many cases, there is always something you can do if you are willing to put the effort. But then again, not for me to judge. Some people are in really tough places.
everdrive 1y ago
Smart phones are the best and the worst glued together. None of the past solutions came with a crack dealer nudging you to ruin your life and waste your time every few seconds.

kakacik 1y ago

The most addicted family-as-a-whole to the screens I know of live literally 100m from each other (3 generations). Suffice to say this is far from their only addiction. What you describe is certainly true for some people, but I am having hard time believing this is majority. I live long term far away from family and an occasional whatsapp video call is covering our digital meeting needs. Most people are simply too weak mentally to resist various self-forming addictions and don't care about these topics at all.

Desafinado 1y ago
It isn't so much about the smartphone replacing family as it is about phones giving us something to do in our homes in lieu of the presence of other people. Even a family that lives close to each other is separated in space by different homes and will often find themselves alone. But their situation will be much better than someone with no family around. They have the option to see each other, many don't. I think the more detailed point is that we're largely atomized these days into separate physical spaces where we're often alone, or confined to a small number of people. Smartphones and computers make it a hell of a lot easier to break through that problem.