4 ms·

The only problem is that the stock market is tied to a bunch of retirement/pension and other accounts. Yes stock market should burn to the ground but also I thi

The only problem is that the stock market is tied to a bunch of retirement/pension and other accounts. Yes stock market should burn to the ground but also I think pensioners and retirees shouldn’t be put out, just the finance bros and private equity folks which money is just a plaything.

philipwhiuk 1y ago
Pensioners and retirees willingly dumping money into index funds without oversight are the dumb money that enables all of this. So yes, they deserve a haircut.
- SamoyedFurFluff 1y ago
  Pensioners don’t have a choice where their stuff goes. A teacher or something simply doesn’t deserve that kind of hardship.
  - fredophile 1y ago
    Pension funds should be diversified and have a mix of asset classes that includes more than the stock market. Ideally, most of these assets will move independently so if one is doing particularly badly the others can balance it out to reduce overall volatility. If your pension fund is too heavily weighted to the market, that's a management problem with your fund.
- kjellsbells 1y ago
  Deserve is a strong word. We're talking about regular folks who want to do nothing else but secure their future in the face of a market that regularly tries to screw it up. Can you explain why you suggest "deserve"?
- parrellel 1y ago
  Or perhaps we shouldn't have killed off the concept of pensions in the United States so we weren't all beholden to godforsaken 401Ks?
  - array_key_first 1y ago
    To be fair, the pensions also exploded in a lot of cases. We really just need a more centralized and reliable method of holding money for retirement. Which we have, but we need to expand - SS. Of course, lots of people think SS will explode, too. But it hasn't! Yet!
- travisgriggs 1y ago
  This is pretty myopic, or something. Shows, at least, a real ignorance about the available possibilities (or lack thereof)—at scale—to the common worker for “saving for a later day”. But I’m all ears. Now that you’ve diagnosed how 401K investing fools get what they deserve, care to offer any alternative solutions as to the entire work force should have been saving towards retirement.
  - miningape 1y ago
    (kinda unrelated but) I personally hate these forced savings schemes from the government. At least in my country the rates are low so it almost feels like I'm donating the entire difference in rates between the pension scheme and the S&P500 + taxes straight to the government. At least give those of us brave (or stupid) enough to do something different with the money the option to.
    - cudgy 1y ago
      401k is voluntary
      - travisgriggs 1y ago
        I guess. My company (and I believe most) highly incentivize it by offering matching funds. The company says, "want to save $1000 of your paycheck? We'll throw in $500". The general wisdom is, you'd be an idiot to leave money like that going unreclaimed.
        miningape 1y ago
        Where I am there's actually a %-age of your salary/wage that's "returned" to you when you retire. You don't get a choice. You can choose to contribute to an employer-match scheme (I do) or even fund your own pension account with monthly payments to a pension provider. But these are in addition to the above forced pension.

philipwhiuk 1y ago

Pensioners and retirees willingly dumping money into index funds without oversight are the dumb money that enables all of this. So yes, they deserve a haircut.

SamoyedFurFluff 1y ago
Pensioners don’t have a choice where their stuff goes. A teacher or something simply doesn’t deserve that kind of hardship.
- fredophile 1y ago
  Pension funds should be diversified and have a mix of asset classes that includes more than the stock market. Ideally, most of these assets will move independently so if one is doing particularly badly the others can balance it out to reduce overall volatility. If your pension fund is too heavily weighted to the market, that's a management problem with your fund.
kjellsbells 1y ago
Deserve is a strong word. We're talking about regular folks who want to do nothing else but secure their future in the face of a market that regularly tries to screw it up. Can you explain why you suggest "deserve"?
parrellel 1y ago
Or perhaps we shouldn't have killed off the concept of pensions in the United States so we weren't all beholden to godforsaken 401Ks?
- array_key_first 1y ago
  To be fair, the pensions also exploded in a lot of cases. We really just need a more centralized and reliable method of holding money for retirement. Which we have, but we need to expand - SS. Of course, lots of people think SS will explode, too. But it hasn't! Yet!
travisgriggs 1y ago
This is pretty myopic, or something. Shows, at least, a real ignorance about the available possibilities (or lack thereof)—at scale—to the common worker for “saving for a later day”. But I’m all ears. Now that you’ve diagnosed how 401K investing fools get what they deserve, care to offer any alternative solutions as to the entire work force should have been saving towards retirement.
- miningape 1y ago
  (kinda unrelated but) I personally hate these forced savings schemes from the government. At least in my country the rates are low so it almost feels like I'm donating the entire difference in rates between the pension scheme and the S&P500 + taxes straight to the government. At least give those of us brave (or stupid) enough to do something different with the money the option to.
  - cudgy 1y ago
    401k is voluntary
    - travisgriggs 1y ago
      I guess. My company (and I believe most) highly incentivize it by offering matching funds. The company says, "want to save $1000 of your paycheck? We'll throw in $500". The general wisdom is, you'd be an idiot to leave money like that going unreclaimed.
      - miningape 1y ago
        Where I am there's actually a %-age of your salary/wage that's "returned" to you when you retire. You don't get a choice. You can choose to contribute to an employer-match scheme (I do) or even fund your own pension account with monthly payments to a pension provider. But these are in addition to the above forced pension.