5 ms·

This excuse could be used by many countries to seize European companies controlling strategic national resources

by brazukadev 1y ago

justinclift 1y ago
And it might even be valid too.
octo888 1y ago
Let's hope so
jsiepkes 1y ago
Let's be real here, a European company wouldn't even have been allowed to buy a Chinese company in China and have the level of control as in this case in the first place.
- tartoran 1y ago
  This is it pretty much, not sure why it took so long to come to this realization. Was it greed that caused a warp in rational and common sense?
  - q3k 1y ago
    Just the religious belief that The Free Market will solve everything on its own and there should be no attempt to interfere with it.
    - jaccola 1y ago
      I never understood this, I believe very strongly in the free market, but only where there is a free market. Of course you can let the free market run free up to the border of e.g. the US but surely it won't solve international trade since many countries do not have a free market. Unless we agree some international rules such that the boundary of the free market "sandbox" becomes the earths borders. It's why I also think it is possible to hold a pro-free-market pro-tariff position simultaneously without contradiction. Tariffs could be used to "level set" manipulation from foreign governments and make the incoming goods behave as if they were not manipulated (thus also reducing the incentive to manipulate in the first place). Not sure this is how tariffs are being used in reality.
      - corimaith 1y ago
        You are 100% correct. Free Trade hasn't been disproven, only the inane notion that one should pursue unreciproval free trade with a countries that perform mercantalism against them. The consumer isn't everything, the worker does matter just as much.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
  - stackskipton 1y ago
    Greed. When China was becoming manufacturing powerhouse, it was incredibly cheap, and Chinese government seemed extremely willing to play ball by making sure there was no government caused slowdowns. This obviously worked until it didn't but even now, it's so expensive to change, corporations are screaming about their quarterly stock price and US being so financialized, US in a real gordian knot.
  - array_key_first 1y ago
    Greed sure, but also optics. In the US at least, we love to condemn China for being "communist" and not a real democracy. Remember, for the US, communist has been the number one enemy for a long time. Obviously, we can't do what they do. But we do what they do, and China isn't even communist.
    - skinnymuch 1y ago
      China is communist. Interesting how often outsiders are so sure a country led by the CPC isn’t Marxist.
      - array_key_first 1y ago
        China isn't communist because they have many free markets sectors of their economy and many private institutions. People just don't know what communism is. Calling yourself the communist party doesn't magically make you communist. You have to do communism, which they no longer do. It's a very simple test. Can I own assets, such as a factory? If the answer is yes, you're not communist. China isn't communist.
        skinnymuch 1y ago
        Having your mode of production focus on people and not profit. Having a dictatorship of the proletariat is the most important thing. The end of private property is an eventual goal but it’s not close to the primary issue in 2025. The actual fight is against imperialists and global capitalists. Private property can be a tool in that fight. Being revisionist like China still makes you a communist/Marxist.
        array_key_first 1y ago
        I mean, I just disagree. China has only gotten more capitalist and less isolationist with time. It's very western-like.
  - arp242 1y ago
    There seems to be some sort of general belief that everyone acts at least roughly in good faith. And sure, there are hiccups, but things will work out fine in the long run as the world moves towards peace, liberty, and freedom. It would be nice if that was the case. Personally I think it has all the well-intentioned naïvety of a 14-year old "why can't we just abolish the military?!" pacifist.
Longlius 1y ago
And which firms in China are controlled by European entities?
- constantcrying 1y ago
  There are many companies which the Chinese government could target in retaliation. In China foreign companies are usually minority partners in some ventures with some Chinese company.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - klooney 1y ago
    > foreign companies are usually minority partners So, uh, none?
- DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
  European companies have had massive investments in China for decades now. Many people in the West have no idea what's going on in China. Western brands and investments are all over the place. Half the cars on the streets used to be European or American (and that has only recently changed, due to the rise of EVs). Yet Europeans and Americans often complain, "Why can't Western companies operate in China?" Excuse me?
  - like_any_other 1y ago
    The question was, emphasis mine: "which firms in China are controlled by European entities?" Western brands have investments, but are required by law to have a local partner, that learns the trade and eventually copies the product: China bars foreign companies from participating on their own in many industries, but in some of those industries foreign companies can participate only by forming a joint venture with a Chinese partner. [..] Partnering with a Chinese business can be tricky for various reasons, so understanding to what you are agreeing is absolutely critical. This is especially true because the Chinese law, the Chinese government, and the Chinese courts will be heavily biased in favor of your joint venture partner in any dispute between your company and your China joint venture partner’s company. - https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/china-joint-venture/ https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/china-joint-venture... > Half the cars on the streets used to be European or American And more than half the phones in Europe or America are Asian - what's your point?

This excuse could be used by many countries to seize European companies controlling strategic national resources

justinclift 1y ago

And it might even be valid too.

octo888 1y ago

Let's hope so

jsiepkes 1y ago

Let's be real here, a European company wouldn't even have been allowed to buy a Chinese company in China and have the level of control as in this case in the first place.

tartoran 1y ago
This is it pretty much, not sure why it took so long to come to this realization. Was it greed that caused a warp in rational and common sense?
- q3k 1y ago
  Just the religious belief that The Free Market will solve everything on its own and there should be no attempt to interfere with it.
  - jaccola 1y ago
    I never understood this, I believe very strongly in the free market, but only where there is a free market. Of course you can let the free market run free up to the border of e.g. the US but surely it won't solve international trade since many countries do not have a free market. Unless we agree some international rules such that the boundary of the free market "sandbox" becomes the earths borders. It's why I also think it is possible to hold a pro-free-market pro-tariff position simultaneously without contradiction. Tariffs could be used to "level set" manipulation from foreign governments and make the incoming goods behave as if they were not manipulated (thus also reducing the incentive to manipulate in the first place). Not sure this is how tariffs are being used in reality.
    - corimaith 1y ago
      You are 100% correct. Free Trade hasn't been disproven, only the inane notion that one should pursue unreciproval free trade with a countries that perform mercantalism against them. The consumer isn't everything, the worker does matter just as much.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- stackskipton 1y ago
  Greed. When China was becoming manufacturing powerhouse, it was incredibly cheap, and Chinese government seemed extremely willing to play ball by making sure there was no government caused slowdowns. This obviously worked until it didn't but even now, it's so expensive to change, corporations are screaming about their quarterly stock price and US being so financialized, US in a real gordian knot.
- array_key_first 1y ago
  Greed sure, but also optics. In the US at least, we love to condemn China for being "communist" and not a real democracy. Remember, for the US, communist has been the number one enemy for a long time. Obviously, we can't do what they do. But we do what they do, and China isn't even communist.
  - skinnymuch 1y ago
    China is communist. Interesting how often outsiders are so sure a country led by the CPC isn’t Marxist.
    - array_key_first 1y ago
      China isn't communist because they have many free markets sectors of their economy and many private institutions. People just don't know what communism is. Calling yourself the communist party doesn't magically make you communist. You have to do communism, which they no longer do. It's a very simple test. Can I own assets, such as a factory? If the answer is yes, you're not communist. China isn't communist.
      - skinnymuch 1y ago
        Having your mode of production focus on people and not profit. Having a dictatorship of the proletariat is the most important thing. The end of private property is an eventual goal but it’s not close to the primary issue in 2025. The actual fight is against imperialists and global capitalists. Private property can be a tool in that fight. Being revisionist like China still makes you a communist/Marxist.
        array_key_first 1y ago
        I mean, I just disagree. China has only gotten more capitalist and less isolationist with time. It's very western-like.
- arp242 1y ago
  There seems to be some sort of general belief that everyone acts at least roughly in good faith. And sure, there are hiccups, but things will work out fine in the long run as the world moves towards peace, liberty, and freedom. It would be nice if that was the case. Personally I think it has all the well-intentioned naïvety of a 14-year old "why can't we just abolish the military?!" pacifist.

Longlius 1y ago

And which firms in China are controlled by European entities?

constantcrying 1y ago
There are many companies which the Chinese government could target in retaliation. In China foreign companies are usually minority partners in some ventures with some Chinese company.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- klooney 1y ago
  > foreign companies are usually minority partners So, uh, none?
DiogenesKynikos 1y ago
European companies have had massive investments in China for decades now. Many people in the West have no idea what's going on in China. Western brands and investments are all over the place. Half the cars on the streets used to be European or American (and that has only recently changed, due to the rise of EVs). Yet Europeans and Americans often complain, "Why can't Western companies operate in China?" Excuse me?
- like_any_other 1y ago
  The question was, emphasis mine: "which firms in China are controlled by European entities?" Western brands have investments, but are required by law to have a local partner, that learns the trade and eventually copies the product: China bars foreign companies from participating on their own in many industries, but in some of those industries foreign companies can participate only by forming a joint venture with a Chinese partner. [..] Partnering with a Chinese business can be tricky for various reasons, so understanding to what you are agreeing is absolutely critical. This is especially true because the Chinese law, the Chinese government, and the Chinese courts will be heavily biased in favor of your joint venture partner in any dispute between your company and your China joint venture partner’s company. - https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/china-joint-venture/ https://harris-sliwoski.com/chinalawblog/china-joint-venture... > Half the cars on the streets used to be European or American And more than half the phones in Europe or America are Asian - what's your point?