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You can install panels quickly but increasingly we're seeing that the grid isn't up to the task, and those projects are far from quick

by hvb2 1y ago

singularity2001 1y ago
Soon the grid will be just for backup
- rdsubhas 1y ago
  Backup works for a few outliers. But when everyone needs that backup at the same time, it's not a backup anymore. From what we know... - baseload electricity generation is not economical or practical (reactive) as a pure backup. - a few grid-level mega-storage prototype projects, but nowhere near the scale of powering modern cities for a couple of off-weather days, or events where people congregate. The hope is that – a combination of "couple of hours" of grid-level battery, and use that time to bring up a baseload. But the economics of that is abysmal (high capex/opex for what's essentially "hoping as an investor" for a few off-days so that this thing gets used after all). Those micro-nuclear-plants seem to still have a place. As of now, grid as a backup is still only wishful thinking. Except for those who are already off-grid and changed their lifestyles to accomodate a few no-power days as a compromise.
- tim333 1y ago
  Or seasonal demand. Batteries can probably smooth the daily demand but not seasonal yet. Still the existing grid is probably ok for that.
bruce511 1y ago
Yes, the grid votes into play. Especially for commercial solar installations. If I drop a 200Mw facility in a sunny area the grid needs updating to accept that 200Mw at that point. Bit that's "boring" infrastructure. Cables, trenches, transformers. It can be done in "months" (perhaps a couple years) not decades. For residential solar of course it's a non issue. The inverter caps the amount sent to the grid, and that cap is most often set to 0. (The 16% return I mentioned earlier is before feeding to the grid.)
dzhiurgis 1y ago
This. Largest datacenters need gigawatt scale power now so they just go with gas turbines.

You can install panels quickly but increasingly we're seeing that the grid isn't up to the task, and those projects are far from quick

by hvb2 1y ago

You can install panels quickly but increasingly we're seeing that the grid isn't up to the task, and those projects are far from quick

singularity2001 1y ago

Soon the grid will be just for backup

rdsubhas 1y ago
Backup works for a few outliers. But when everyone needs that backup at the same time, it's not a backup anymore. From what we know... - baseload electricity generation is not economical or practical (reactive) as a pure backup. - a few grid-level mega-storage prototype projects, but nowhere near the scale of powering modern cities for a couple of off-weather days, or events where people congregate. The hope is that – a combination of "couple of hours" of grid-level battery, and use that time to bring up a baseload. But the economics of that is abysmal (high capex/opex for what's essentially "hoping as an investor" for a few off-days so that this thing gets used after all). Those micro-nuclear-plants seem to still have a place. As of now, grid as a backup is still only wishful thinking. Except for those who are already off-grid and changed their lifestyles to accomodate a few no-power days as a compromise.
tim333 1y ago
Or seasonal demand. Batteries can probably smooth the daily demand but not seasonal yet. Still the existing grid is probably ok for that.

bruce511 1y ago

Yes, the grid votes into play. Especially for commercial solar installations. If I drop a 200Mw facility in a sunny area the grid needs updating to accept that 200Mw at that point. Bit that's "boring" infrastructure. Cables, trenches, transformers. It can be done in "months" (perhaps a couple years) not decades. For residential solar of course it's a non issue. The inverter caps the amount sent to the grid, and that cap is most often set to 0. (The 16% return I mentioned earlier is before feeding to the grid.)

dzhiurgis 1y ago

This. Largest datacenters need gigawatt scale power now so they just go with gas turbines.