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I was going to comment something in the same vein. What even is the point anymore? They want flesh and blood robots to feed the algorithm overlords. They don't

I was going to comment something in the same vein. What even is the point anymore? They want flesh and blood robots to feed the algorithm overlords. They don't even seem to realise they're basically killing their profession/passion in doing so, although I doubt any writer with an ounce of self respect, passion and skill would perceive llms as anything other than repulsive monstrosities

simonw 1y ago
"I doubt any writer with an ounce of self respect, passion and skill would perceive llms as anything other than repulsive monstrosities" That's quite an uninformed position to take. I suggest talking to more writers.
- jrflowers 1y ago
  I’m partial to David Simon’s stance on AI and writing SIMON: I don't think AI can remotely challenge what writers do at a fundamentally creative level. SHAPIRO: But if you're trying to transition from scene five to scene six, and you're stuck with that transition, you could imagine plugging that portion of the script into an AI and say, give me 10 ideas for how to transition this. SIMON: I'd rather put a gun in my mouth. https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177194215/tv-writer-david-simon-weighs-in-on-the-writers-guild-of-america-strike https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177194215/tv-writer-david-si...
  - simonw 1y ago
    But would David Simon use it to write a bash script?
- mold_aid 1y ago
  I think they've got it pretty well nailed down.
- lm28469 1y ago
  Drop some names, I'd love to have a chat with them, and read their books.
  - simonw 1y ago
    Finding non-fiction writers is easy because plenty of technologists - Paul Graham, Tim O'Reilly, Ethan Mollick, Addy Osmani, Steve Yegge - have positive takes on LLMs and have published works (often about that topic). I'll highlight some fiction writers instead: Stephen King: https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2023/08/stephen-king-books-ai-writing/675088/ https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2023/08/stephen-ki... Robin Sloan: https://www.robinsloan.com/lab/at-home-in-high-dimensional-space/ https://www.robinsloan.com/lab/at-home-in-high-dimensional-s... Hugh Howey (Silo): https://hughhowey.com/ai-training-permission/ https://hughhowey.com/ai-training-permission/ Joanna Penn (J.F. Penn): https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/05/ai-assisted-artisan-author/ https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/05/ai-assisted-artis... Ken Liu: https://bigthink.com/high-culture/ken-liu-ai-art/ https://bigthink.com/high-culture/ken-liu-ai-art/ Jeanette Winterson: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/mar/12/jeanette-winterson-ai-alternative-intelligence-its-capacity-to-be-other-is-just-what-the-human-race-needs https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/mar/12/jeanette-winte... Debbie Urbanski: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a46025901/debbie-urbanski-after-world-interview/ https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a46025901/debbie... James Frey: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/james-frey-new-book https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/james-frey-new-book
    - simonw 1y ago
      (Technically I'm a published author too, I wrote the forms chapter of The Definitive Guide to Django and contributed a chapter to the Art and Science of JavaScript but those were both single chapters almost 20 years ago now so I don't really think of myself as a book author these days.)
    - lm28469 1y ago
      > Finding non-fiction writers is easy because plenty of technologists Technologists have an obvious conflict of interest, as for fiction it's not really what I'm interested in, it's like asking marlboro about the benefits of cigarettes. Stephen King: never talks about using LLMs to write Robin Sloan: training sets Hugh Howey (Silo): training sets Joanna Penn (J.F. Penn): "Write the books only you can write" Ken Liu: "Much as the printing press changed the way we consume books, AI will change the way we consume text". A writer who talks about books as something to be "consumed" already tells you everything you need to know about them imho, aside from that they seem to say 'it's shit but who knows it might become better in the future", you'll notice even tech bros always talks about the future that never materialize. I don't see anything about writers using LLMs to write books. Jeanette Winterson: "Humans will always want to read what other humans have to say, but like it or not, humans will be living around non-biological entities.", she already gave up as it seems Debbie Urbanski: The only one who seem to actually use LLMs to write, I'l lgive you that James Frey: “I use artificial intelligence because I want to write the best book possible.”, really, do I even have to say anything ?

simonw 1y ago

"I doubt any writer with an ounce of self respect, passion and skill would perceive llms as anything other than repulsive monstrosities" That's quite an uninformed position to take. I suggest talking to more writers.

jrflowers 1y ago
I’m partial to David Simon’s stance on AI and writing SIMON: I don't think AI can remotely challenge what writers do at a fundamentally creative level. SHAPIRO: But if you're trying to transition from scene five to scene six, and you're stuck with that transition, you could imagine plugging that portion of the script into an AI and say, give me 10 ideas for how to transition this. SIMON: I'd rather put a gun in my mouth. https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177194215/tv-writer-david-simon-weighs-in-on-the-writers-guild-of-america-strike https://www.npr.org/2023/05/19/1177194215/tv-writer-david-si...
- simonw 1y ago
  But would David Simon use it to write a bash script?
mold_aid 1y ago
I think they've got it pretty well nailed down.
lm28469 1y ago
Drop some names, I'd love to have a chat with them, and read their books.
- simonw 1y ago
  Finding non-fiction writers is easy because plenty of technologists - Paul Graham, Tim O'Reilly, Ethan Mollick, Addy Osmani, Steve Yegge - have positive takes on LLMs and have published works (often about that topic). I'll highlight some fiction writers instead: Stephen King: https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2023/08/stephen-king-books-ai-writing/675088/ https://www.theatlantic.com/books/archive/2023/08/stephen-ki... Robin Sloan: https://www.robinsloan.com/lab/at-home-in-high-dimensional-space/ https://www.robinsloan.com/lab/at-home-in-high-dimensional-s... Hugh Howey (Silo): https://hughhowey.com/ai-training-permission/ https://hughhowey.com/ai-training-permission/ Joanna Penn (J.F. Penn): https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/05/ai-assisted-artisan-author/ https://www.thecreativepenn.com/2023/05/05/ai-assisted-artis... Ken Liu: https://bigthink.com/high-culture/ken-liu-ai-art/ https://bigthink.com/high-culture/ken-liu-ai-art/ Jeanette Winterson: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/mar/12/jeanette-winterson-ai-alternative-intelligence-its-capacity-to-be-other-is-just-what-the-human-race-needs https://www.theguardian.com/books/2025/mar/12/jeanette-winte... Debbie Urbanski: https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a46025901/debbie-urbanski-after-world-interview/ https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/books/a46025901/debbie... James Frey: https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/james-frey-new-book https://www.vanityfair.com/style/story/james-frey-new-book
  - simonw 1y ago
    (Technically I'm a published author too, I wrote the forms chapter of The Definitive Guide to Django and contributed a chapter to the Art and Science of JavaScript but those were both single chapters almost 20 years ago now so I don't really think of myself as a book author these days.)
  - lm28469 1y ago
    > Finding non-fiction writers is easy because plenty of technologists Technologists have an obvious conflict of interest, as for fiction it's not really what I'm interested in, it's like asking marlboro about the benefits of cigarettes. Stephen King: never talks about using LLMs to write Robin Sloan: training sets Hugh Howey (Silo): training sets Joanna Penn (J.F. Penn): "Write the books only you can write" Ken Liu: "Much as the printing press changed the way we consume books, AI will change the way we consume text". A writer who talks about books as something to be "consumed" already tells you everything you need to know about them imho, aside from that they seem to say 'it's shit but who knows it might become better in the future", you'll notice even tech bros always talks about the future that never materialize. I don't see anything about writers using LLMs to write books. Jeanette Winterson: "Humans will always want to read what other humans have to say, but like it or not, humans will be living around non-biological entities.", she already gave up as it seems Debbie Urbanski: The only one who seem to actually use LLMs to write, I'l lgive you that James Frey: “I use artificial intelligence because I want to write the best book possible.”, really, do I even have to say anything ?