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When Apple forces users to use an online account to access their local Mac, and disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim

When Apple forces users to use an online account to access their local Mac, and disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence between them.

bigyabai 1y ago
I can claim equivalence between them whenever I want. If both OSes adopt and enforce my biggest pet peeves, then no amount of eye candy or freebie features will fix my workflow. Gatekeeping and second opinions don't really move the needle on where I stand with either company.
- handsclean 1y ago
  Showing up in a thread you haven’t even participated in and saying “I’ve already made my choice, quit giving me second opinions” is comically self-centered.
creato 1y ago
I literally just got my first Mac computer a few months ago. I tried to set it up as a local account with no online account. I could not. Maybe it is possible and I just missed it. But either they don't allow it, or they have enough dark pattern bullshit to trick me, either way, it's the same as windows to me.
- pndy 1y ago
  I'm pretty sure there was some keyboard shortcut to skip apple id login/creation during initial setup - not sure if that's still possible nowadays but I did used it once on my mbp few years ago
- ziml77 1y ago
  All you have to do is choose Set Up Later when presented with the screen for logging in with an Apple account.
- vunderba 1y ago
  Unless the way VMs install a distro is somehow fundamentally different from a new computer, then it's literally two clicks when installing Sonoma to use a local account when prompted (Setup Later and then click Skip). I just tested this.
ajkjk 1y ago
the fact that you have to have an apple account to do all kinds of basic developer tasks (installing Xcode / Xcode command line tools, which are needed for lots of stuff last time I checked (a few years ago?)) is evidence that they suck also. But not nearly as bad as Microsoft who are actively scum from the moment you first turn the computer on.
- GeekyBear 1y ago
  "I need a free developer account to download Xcode" is certainly more user friendly than "I have to pay a subscription fee or pay up front to use Visual Studio".
  - okanat 1y ago
    Visual Studio is free for individuals though even for commercial purposes.
  - efreak 1y ago
    Visual studio community edition doesn't require an account, or even an email address. You can even download it through winget.
  - ajkjk 1y ago
    it still sucks, though, since there's no conceivable reason why it would be technically necessary to have an account. It's purely out of self-serving disrespect.
whyoh 1y ago
>disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence What do you mean? Windows doesn't do that. Contrary to what the blog post claims, you can easily uninstall OneDrive (unlike iCloud). And using Windows without an online account is possible, although the process is cumbersome enough to deter the average user.
- EmptyCoffeeCup 1y ago
  Wasn't there a post the other day saying they'd moved it from "Ballache" to "All but impossible" to use a local account in 25H2?
  - whyoh 1y ago
    I tried installing the latest 25H2 (stable iso) and nothing has changed so far. You can still use "bypassNRO" to set it up with a local account, offline. The planned changes will likely only affect the Home edition (Pro/Ent/Edu have more options). Even with Home edition there's a good chance you'll be able to make a local account with an answer file[1][2] or an unofficial tweak. I think Windows will always be able to work without a MS account, because there are many critical (offline) deployments out there. But they'll probably make it difficult if you're using a "consumer" edition. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/update-windows-settings-and-scripts-create-your-own-answer-file-sxs?view=windows-11 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu... [2] https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/

When Apple forces users to use an online account to access their local Mac, and disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence between them.

bigyabai 1y ago

I can claim equivalence between them whenever I want. If both OSes adopt and enforce my biggest pet peeves, then no amount of eye candy or freebie features will fix my workflow. Gatekeeping and second opinions don't really move the needle on where I stand with either company.

handsclean 1y ago
Showing up in a thread you haven’t even participated in and saying “I’ve already made my choice, quit giving me second opinions” is comically self-centered.

creato 1y ago

I literally just got my first Mac computer a few months ago. I tried to set it up as a local account with no online account. I could not. Maybe it is possible and I just missed it. But either they don't allow it, or they have enough dark pattern bullshit to trick me, either way, it's the same as windows to me.

pndy 1y ago
I'm pretty sure there was some keyboard shortcut to skip apple id login/creation during initial setup - not sure if that's still possible nowadays but I did used it once on my mbp few years ago
ziml77 1y ago
All you have to do is choose Set Up Later when presented with the screen for logging in with an Apple account.
vunderba 1y ago
Unless the way VMs install a distro is somehow fundamentally different from a new computer, then it's literally two clicks when installing Sonoma to use a local account when prompted (Setup Later and then click Skip). I just tested this.

ajkjk 1y ago

the fact that you have to have an apple account to do all kinds of basic developer tasks (installing Xcode / Xcode command line tools, which are needed for lots of stuff last time I checked (a few years ago?)) is evidence that they suck also. But not nearly as bad as Microsoft who are actively scum from the moment you first turn the computer on.

GeekyBear 1y ago
"I need a free developer account to download Xcode" is certainly more user friendly than "I have to pay a subscription fee or pay up front to use Visual Studio".
- okanat 1y ago
  Visual Studio is free for individuals though even for commercial purposes.
- efreak 1y ago
  Visual studio community edition doesn't require an account, or even an email address. You can even download it through winget.
- ajkjk 1y ago
  it still sucks, though, since there's no conceivable reason why it would be technically necessary to have an account. It's purely out of self-serving disrespect.

whyoh 1y ago

>disables their OS unless they turn on iCloud on their Mac -- then you can claim equivalence What do you mean? Windows doesn't do that. Contrary to what the blog post claims, you can easily uninstall OneDrive (unlike iCloud). And using Windows without an online account is possible, although the process is cumbersome enough to deter the average user.

EmptyCoffeeCup 1y ago
Wasn't there a post the other day saying they'd moved it from "Ballache" to "All but impossible" to use a local account in 25H2?
- whyoh 1y ago
  I tried installing the latest 25H2 (stable iso) and nothing has changed so far. You can still use "bypassNRO" to set it up with a local account, offline. The planned changes will likely only affect the Home edition (Pro/Ent/Edu have more options). Even with Home edition there's a good chance you'll be able to make a local account with an answer file[1][2] or an unofficial tweak. I think Windows will always be able to work without a MS account, because there are many critical (offline) deployments out there. But they'll probably make it difficult if you're using a "consumer" edition. [1] https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufacture/desktop/update-windows-settings-and-scripts-create-your-own-answer-file-sxs?view=windows-11 https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows-hardware/manufactu... [2] https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/ https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/