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You can say this about most of tech. Sure, we agree spying is bad. But, is it worse than ad tech at large? Is it worse than companies addicting people to the

You can say this about most of tech. Sure, we agree spying is bad. But, is it worse than ad tech at large? Is it worse than companies addicting people to their phones via psychological tricks at alarming rates? Or siphoning money from kids via freemium models? Or working on a chatbot that helps kids kill themselves? Or the gazillion payday loan apps? Or the gazillion prediction market/sports betting avenues? I'm sure some work for more ethical companies, and I like to think I do.. But let's not pretend the vast majority of big money and biggest employers are doing any good in the world. Given the choice between said evils, I'd probably rather work for a company that is at least honest about what they do.

phoronixrly 1y ago
No, it's not. Is what the conpany doing ethical? No? Hard pass.
calmbell 1y ago
Enabling the state violence of authoritarian governments through surveillance software is unequivocally worse than the examples you listed.
- port11 1y ago
  “Is spyware that causes torture and death in oppressive regimes worse than freemium apps?” is almost a comical take on the situation. I agree that many tech out there is useless or detrimental to society, but spyware must rank very close to the top. Adware a close competitor.
seydor 1y ago
yes it s worse, far worse
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
skavi 1y ago
an excellent example of how these people justify their work to themselves.
quitit 1y ago
What is concerning is the willingness of companies to do these things. Take Epic for example, on one hand they're heavy in Marketing/PR about user freedom, but in practice they deliberately targeted children for harm with their Fortnite game, while also looking the other way when it came to issues of sexual predation and bullying. Their behaviours led to a settlement with the FTC for over half a billion USD. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/fortnite-video-game-maker-epic-games-pay-more-half-billion-dollars-over-ftc-allegations https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/... https://lawandcrime.com/technology/makers-of-fortnite-to-pay-unprecedented-520-million-to-settle-claims-of-exposing-children-to-online-dangers-and-duping-users-with-dark-patterns/ https://lawandcrime.com/technology/makers-of-fortnite-to-pay...
water-data-dude 1y ago
It's a choice. I make a lot less money than I could because I refuse to work in ad tech, etc. If I'm spending a third of my time putting energy into a business, it's not acceptable for me if that business is evil. I want that effort going to something that's a net positive for the world. That being said, I also don't have a family to support - it's just me - which makes the calculus easier. It's still a choice, and everyone should try to face the reality of "what effect is the 8 hours a day I work having on the world?", but I know life-shit can be complicated and stressful and most people are just trying their best.

phoronixrly 1y ago

No, it's not. Is what the conpany doing ethical? No? Hard pass.

calmbell 1y ago

Enabling the state violence of authoritarian governments through surveillance software is unequivocally worse than the examples you listed.

port11 1y ago
“Is spyware that causes torture and death in oppressive regimes worse than freemium apps?” is almost a comical take on the situation. I agree that many tech out there is useless or detrimental to society, but spyware must rank very close to the top. Adware a close competitor.

seydor 1y ago

yes it s worse, far worse

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

skavi 1y ago

an excellent example of how these people justify their work to themselves.

quitit 1y ago

What is concerning is the willingness of companies to do these things. Take Epic for example, on one hand they're heavy in Marketing/PR about user freedom, but in practice they deliberately targeted children for harm with their Fortnite game, while also looking the other way when it came to issues of sexual predation and bullying. Their behaviours led to a settlement with the FTC for over half a billion USD. https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/fortnite-video-game-maker-epic-games-pay-more-half-billion-dollars-over-ftc-allegations https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2022/12/... https://lawandcrime.com/technology/makers-of-fortnite-to-pay-unprecedented-520-million-to-settle-claims-of-exposing-children-to-online-dangers-and-duping-users-with-dark-patterns/ https://lawandcrime.com/technology/makers-of-fortnite-to-pay...

water-data-dude 1y ago

It's a choice. I make a lot less money than I could because I refuse to work in ad tech, etc. If I'm spending a third of my time putting energy into a business, it's not acceptable for me if that business is evil. I want that effort going to something that's a net positive for the world. That being said, I also don't have a family to support - it's just me - which makes the calculus easier. It's still a choice, and everyone should try to face the reality of "what effect is the 8 hours a day I work having on the world?", but I know life-shit can be complicated and stressful and most people are just trying their best.