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> On economics and foreign policy there's almost no daylight between the major parties in the US This is, and the rudeness is warranted here, a breathtakingly

by KPGv2 1y ago

> On economics and foreign policy there's almost no daylight between the major parties in the US This is, and the rudeness is warranted here, a breathtakingly stupid thing to claim. Are you just not looking at what the Republican party has become, or do you think the full-throated support of Trump's policies by the Republican party doesn't imply the Republican party's policies are Trump's policies? The idea that the Democratic Party and Trump Party's economic and foreign policies have no daylight between them is laughable. From the 100% tariffs, the plans to pave over Gaza and build hotels, slashing and burning social safety nets, threatening to annex Canada and Greenland, canceling chip fab plans in the US, the list goes on forever.

shigawire 1y ago
To add, the idea that there tariffs in any way reflect neoliberal orthodoxy is bizarre as well. They are the antithesis for neoliberal free trade economics.
- jmyeet 1y ago
  And where was that said?
  - watwut 1y ago
    > America is a one-party state. That party is neoliberalism. On economics and foreign policy there's almost no daylight between the major parties in the US and really foreign policy is economics. There.
    - jmyeet 1y ago
      So you actually just ignored the rest of the comment talking about how the tariffs were a departure from the economic order?
      - watwut 1y ago
        It says following: > Why tariffs have crossed a line is because the Republicans seem to have forgotten that protecting the economic order is the point of culture war issues. It does not say it is not neoliberalism. Just that it is tactical mistake related to culture war.
jmyeet 1y ago
Explain to me how there's any substantive difference between either party on: - Israel - The rest of the Middle East - Ukraine - NATO - China (tariffs notwithstanding) - Russia Even on something like immigration, the ICE Gestapo are only really an escalation of what both parties have been doing. Kamala's immigration plan in the last election cycle was esentially identical to Trump's 2020 platform. Obama was called, among other things, the deporter-in-chief (eg [1]). Biden blocked more asylum seekers under Title 42 than Trump did in his first term. [1]: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table3...
- watwut 1y ago
  Ukraine - Trump all but openly supports Russia. Democrats dont. NATO - Trump and republicans are intentionally trying to dismantle it. Democrats dont. Russia - Republicans admire what Russia stands for. Democrats dont. And the claim that parties are the same on immigration is beyond absurd too. Yes they are fully easily distinguishable. It does not mean that Democrats are like the caricature conservatives make with "anything goes" policies. Just because they are not in complete extreme does not mean they are the same. And they were definitely not creating the "you can arrest people on their skin color alone" philosophy conservatives use.
  - jmyeet 1y ago
    > Ukraine - Trump all but openly supports Russia. Democrats dont. What is different in Ukraine now vs under Biden? The war hasn't ended. We haven't stopped supplying Ukraine. The US was always going to support Ukraine no matter who was in office at the time the war started. The only reason you heard noise from the Republicans against it was because Russia invaded when Biden was in office. That's literally it. > NATO - Trump and republicans are intentionally trying to dismantle it. Democrats dont. How exactly? Trump has forced NATO members to spend more on their military (~2% GDP, as per the NATO charter). NATO expansion into the former Warsaw bloc countries began under Clinton, continued under Bush and kept going under Obama. There's no difference here. > Russia - Republicans admire what Russia stands for. Democrats dont. I don't really care about rhetoric. People say things. It doesn't mean a lot. Not compared to what they do anyway. It's a bit like Erdogan in Turkey waving his fist in the air saying "I'm so mad at you, Israel". Is he actually? No. Turkey could collapse Israel's economy overnight if they really wanted to. > Just because they are not in complete extreme does not mean they are the same. And they were definitely not creating the "you can arrest people on their skin color alone" philosophy conservatives use. Assuming we have elections again and assuming Democrats try to win a presidential election (they did not try to win 2024) and assuming we get another Democratic administration, watch what they roll back of Republican policy. Historically, it's been very little. Remember Trump's 2017 tax cuts? What of that got rolled back? The Democrats held the House, Senate and the White House for Biden's first 2 years. They could've claimed they needed to to pay for COVID economic relief. Bush created ICE in 2003. Remember how Obama disbanded ICE? Oh wait, Biden disbanded ICE? Oh wait... And it's not like disbanding ICE is a new idea. It's not. The job of the Democrats is to use the idea of defending institutions as an excuse to do nothing.

by KPGv2 1y ago

shigawire 1y ago

To add, the idea that there tariffs in any way reflect neoliberal orthodoxy is bizarre as well. They are the antithesis for neoliberal free trade economics.

jmyeet 1y ago
And where was that said?
- watwut 1y ago
  > America is a one-party state. That party is neoliberalism. On economics and foreign policy there's almost no daylight between the major parties in the US and really foreign policy is economics. There.
  - jmyeet 1y ago
    So you actually just ignored the rest of the comment talking about how the tariffs were a departure from the economic order?
    - watwut 1y ago
      It says following: > Why tariffs have crossed a line is because the Republicans seem to have forgotten that protecting the economic order is the point of culture war issues. It does not say it is not neoliberalism. Just that it is tactical mistake related to culture war.

jmyeet 1y ago

Explain to me how there's any substantive difference between either party on: - Israel - The rest of the Middle East - Ukraine - NATO - China (tariffs notwithstanding) - Russia Even on something like immigration, the ICE Gestapo are only really an escalation of what both parties have been doing. Kamala's immigration plan in the last election cycle was esentially identical to Trump's 2020 platform. Obama was called, among other things, the deporter-in-chief (eg [1]). Biden blocked more asylum seekers under Title 42 than Trump did in his first term. [1]: https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table39 https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigration/yearbook/2019/table3...

watwut 1y ago
Ukraine - Trump all but openly supports Russia. Democrats dont. NATO - Trump and republicans are intentionally trying to dismantle it. Democrats dont. Russia - Republicans admire what Russia stands for. Democrats dont. And the claim that parties are the same on immigration is beyond absurd too. Yes they are fully easily distinguishable. It does not mean that Democrats are like the caricature conservatives make with "anything goes" policies. Just because they are not in complete extreme does not mean they are the same. And they were definitely not creating the "you can arrest people on their skin color alone" philosophy conservatives use.
- jmyeet 1y ago
  > Ukraine - Trump all but openly supports Russia. Democrats dont. What is different in Ukraine now vs under Biden? The war hasn't ended. We haven't stopped supplying Ukraine. The US was always going to support Ukraine no matter who was in office at the time the war started. The only reason you heard noise from the Republicans against it was because Russia invaded when Biden was in office. That's literally it. > NATO - Trump and republicans are intentionally trying to dismantle it. Democrats dont. How exactly? Trump has forced NATO members to spend more on their military (~2% GDP, as per the NATO charter). NATO expansion into the former Warsaw bloc countries began under Clinton, continued under Bush and kept going under Obama. There's no difference here. > Russia - Republicans admire what Russia stands for. Democrats dont. I don't really care about rhetoric. People say things. It doesn't mean a lot. Not compared to what they do anyway. It's a bit like Erdogan in Turkey waving his fist in the air saying "I'm so mad at you, Israel". Is he actually? No. Turkey could collapse Israel's economy overnight if they really wanted to. > Just because they are not in complete extreme does not mean they are the same. And they were definitely not creating the "you can arrest people on their skin color alone" philosophy conservatives use. Assuming we have elections again and assuming Democrats try to win a presidential election (they did not try to win 2024) and assuming we get another Democratic administration, watch what they roll back of Republican policy. Historically, it's been very little. Remember Trump's 2017 tax cuts? What of that got rolled back? The Democrats held the House, Senate and the White House for Biden's first 2 years. They could've claimed they needed to to pay for COVID economic relief. Bush created ICE in 2003. Remember how Obama disbanded ICE? Oh wait, Biden disbanded ICE? Oh wait... And it's not like disbanding ICE is a new idea. It's not. The job of the Democrats is to use the idea of defending institutions as an excuse to do nothing.