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> Of course, the dagger in your argument is… Reading comprehension moment: the parent comment was carefully not claiming either side of the argument. Your res

> Of course, the dagger in your argument is… Reading comprehension moment: the parent comment was carefully not claiming either side of the argument. Your response, and the downvotes, are as if they declared for the locally unpopular side. They did not.

mft_ 1y ago
Not sure I agree, based on (more subtle?) reading comprehension. > The conservative view simply is that this correlation is causal, while the liberal view is that the causation runs in the opposite direction of the correlation. You're right that the poster doesn't make it clear (deliberately or not) but the use of the word "simply" feels sympathetic, and suggesting that the "liberal view" is that correlation and causation are opposed (when that would typically be counter-intuitive) sounds critical. At least, that was my comprehension of the post, as someone without any skin in the game.
maleldil 1y ago
Suggesting both points of view as reasonable is an indication of what they really think.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> Your response, and the downvotes I upvoted rayiner’s comment because it’s argued in good faith. (What would be in bad faith would be putting forward a third party’s flawed argument without pointing out the flaws for shits and giggles.)
- rayiner 1y ago
  I certainly believe in the argument so no problem ascribing it to me.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    For what it's worth, I don't think the science on this is settled. I think the evidence swings towards too many irresponsible Americans having too many guns. But the single-family bias in school shooters is something I hadn't read about before. One takeaway from that evidence, however, could be that single-parent homes should have restrictions on how many guns they can own, what kind of guns those can be and how they must be stored. The fact that American single-family kids turn into school shooters, while the rest of the (rich) world's do not, continues to speak to a uniquely American nexus. The most obvious and evidenced one is our prevalence (and loose regulation) of guns.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      Personally I think it's a bona fide societal mental health problem. The American ideal of hyper-individualist self-reliance implies you are utterly on your own. This means that everything that happens to you is your fault, and you can only right it by taking responsibility to fix it yourself. But it's kind of impossible to simply stop yourself from being bullied, because "if you could have, you would have". Coupled with entertainment that primarily revolves around people aiming guns at each other while barking orders, then shooting to see who gets to be in charge, then more aiming/barking. Guns are framed as the obvious solution to problems, and the media reinforces this by making sure every shooter gets their 15 minutes (or days). Frankly with this setup, the surprising thing is that there aren't more mass shootings.

mft_ 1y ago

Not sure I agree, based on (more subtle?) reading comprehension. > The conservative view simply is that this correlation is causal, while the liberal view is that the causation runs in the opposite direction of the correlation. You're right that the poster doesn't make it clear (deliberately or not) but the use of the word "simply" feels sympathetic, and suggesting that the "liberal view" is that correlation and causation are opposed (when that would typically be counter-intuitive) sounds critical. At least, that was my comprehension of the post, as someone without any skin in the game.

maleldil 1y ago

Suggesting both points of view as reasonable is an indication of what they really think.

JumpCrisscross 1y ago

> Your response, and the downvotes I upvoted rayiner’s comment because it’s argued in good faith. (What would be in bad faith would be putting forward a third party’s flawed argument without pointing out the flaws for shits and giggles.)

rayiner 1y ago
I certainly believe in the argument so no problem ascribing it to me.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  For what it's worth, I don't think the science on this is settled. I think the evidence swings towards too many irresponsible Americans having too many guns. But the single-family bias in school shooters is something I hadn't read about before. One takeaway from that evidence, however, could be that single-parent homes should have restrictions on how many guns they can own, what kind of guns those can be and how they must be stored. The fact that American single-family kids turn into school shooters, while the rest of the (rich) world's do not, continues to speak to a uniquely American nexus. The most obvious and evidenced one is our prevalence (and loose regulation) of guns.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    Personally I think it's a bona fide societal mental health problem. The American ideal of hyper-individualist self-reliance implies you are utterly on your own. This means that everything that happens to you is your fault, and you can only right it by taking responsibility to fix it yourself. But it's kind of impossible to simply stop yourself from being bullied, because "if you could have, you would have". Coupled with entertainment that primarily revolves around people aiming guns at each other while barking orders, then shooting to see who gets to be in charge, then more aiming/barking. Guns are framed as the obvious solution to problems, and the media reinforces this by making sure every shooter gets their 15 minutes (or days). Frankly with this setup, the surprising thing is that there aren't more mass shootings.