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I think it was this part that stuck out to me. “His partner died in 2018 as a result of vascular dementia. The loss affected him deeply.” I can see that loss

by Noaidi 1y ago

I think it was this part that stuck out to me. “His partner died in 2018 as a result of vascular dementia. The loss affected him deeply.” I can see that loss affecting him even though he had a new partner. Depression does not always go away when you meet someone new. But I think people with depression have lost hope in the future. And it sounds like he lost Hope in his future.

fn-mote 1y ago
> it sounds like he lost hope in his future People in their 80's are watching their friends die one after the other. They aren't fooling themselves about their long-term prospects. No problems with enjoying life, I support that, but it's hard to believe the end isn't coming for you like it comes for everyone else. I just think this idea that it is "hope" or "depression" is wrong-headed. Having some older friends might give you a deeper perspective.
- Noaidi 1y ago
  I am old. I have friends in their 70s and I have friends that died of cancer and suicide and heart attacks. I had a father who died terribly of a rapid spreading cancer and a mother who lived with chronic pain and heart disease for 30 years. I have friends who like me live in poverty some of them suffer from it, others of us don’t. If you lived in your 80s and you have not figured out what life is about then that’s not a problem with life, that’s a problem with the person who did not figure out life. This is the spiritual quest that I think is missing in the world right now. I’m not really being woo-woo here and I’m not talking about God or any other mythical being. I’m talking about the amazing thing that it is to be alive. Being alive is not just about happiness, but you can be joyous experiencing both happiness and suffering. Our suffering will end, and our happiness will end. Acceptance of the things you can’t change is the key here. I am no stoic that’s for sure. If you’re too hot, move into the shade. But if I have no shade and I’m suffering the heat, how much more happy am I going to be when I finally reach shade! It’s my friends who went through the deepest suffering that are the most happy and joyous. It’s these people who teach us about life, Not the people who kill themselves because they’re afraid of looking like an old man.
  - N_Lens 1y ago
    While I respect your perspective on the value of suffering (which seems to arise from our sense of self and what we associate with “I”) and figuring out life, I think you judge Kahneman as an outside observer without access to his inner thoughts, state and factors that went into his decision.
    - Noaidi 1y ago
      I agree with you. All I can judgment is his actions. And his words. This man was afraid of future suffering. And he was so afraid of it that he would rather die than face it. But the truth is, he could’ve tripped and fell down the stairs the next day and died on his own. So not only was he afraid, but he was arrogant. He thought he could predict the future. This man certainty took whatever life he had left away from his “partner“. I’m less concerned about what was in his head than the message that he sends. The message he sent was that perceived future suffering is not worth enduring. He killed himself because he was afraid of suffering. He was afraid of the natural process of dying. Is that the message we want to send about old age and dying? That it’s unnatural? Can anyone choose what age they think is old enough? Maybe it should be 65 years old, the retirement age. That would save the United States a lot of money for sure. Is this setting up the president for some sort of real life version of Logan‘s run?
      - oreally 1y ago
        I'm not sure if you even read the article nor his books, and I disagree with your interpretation of his actions because they have very extravagant presumptions, judging from your comments. I don't think he was afraid. I think he mapped out his late age future, and wanted to fast forward to what his next adventure even in post-death while leaving his last touches on the world a good one. Leaving the world a better place than when he started, as they say. > I’m less concerned about what was in his head than the message that he sends. As quoted from the article: Daniel Kahneman did not want to make a statement or start a debate. "I am not ashamed of my decision," he wrote, "but I don't want it to be discussed publicly either."
LorenPechtel 1y ago
That's not how I see it. It was seeing my father's death that really solidified it for me that there are things worse than death. I am not in the slightest depressed about it, though.

by Noaidi 1y ago

fn-mote 1y ago

> it sounds like he lost hope in his future People in their 80's are watching their friends die one after the other. They aren't fooling themselves about their long-term prospects. No problems with enjoying life, I support that, but it's hard to believe the end isn't coming for you like it comes for everyone else. I just think this idea that it is "hope" or "depression" is wrong-headed. Having some older friends might give you a deeper perspective.

Noaidi 1y ago
I am old. I have friends in their 70s and I have friends that died of cancer and suicide and heart attacks. I had a father who died terribly of a rapid spreading cancer and a mother who lived with chronic pain and heart disease for 30 years. I have friends who like me live in poverty some of them suffer from it, others of us don’t. If you lived in your 80s and you have not figured out what life is about then that’s not a problem with life, that’s a problem with the person who did not figure out life. This is the spiritual quest that I think is missing in the world right now. I’m not really being woo-woo here and I’m not talking about God or any other mythical being. I’m talking about the amazing thing that it is to be alive. Being alive is not just about happiness, but you can be joyous experiencing both happiness and suffering. Our suffering will end, and our happiness will end. Acceptance of the things you can’t change is the key here. I am no stoic that’s for sure. If you’re too hot, move into the shade. But if I have no shade and I’m suffering the heat, how much more happy am I going to be when I finally reach shade! It’s my friends who went through the deepest suffering that are the most happy and joyous. It’s these people who teach us about life, Not the people who kill themselves because they’re afraid of looking like an old man.
- N_Lens 1y ago
  While I respect your perspective on the value of suffering (which seems to arise from our sense of self and what we associate with “I”) and figuring out life, I think you judge Kahneman as an outside observer without access to his inner thoughts, state and factors that went into his decision.
  - Noaidi 1y ago
    I agree with you. All I can judgment is his actions. And his words. This man was afraid of future suffering. And he was so afraid of it that he would rather die than face it. But the truth is, he could’ve tripped and fell down the stairs the next day and died on his own. So not only was he afraid, but he was arrogant. He thought he could predict the future. This man certainty took whatever life he had left away from his “partner“. I’m less concerned about what was in his head than the message that he sends. The message he sent was that perceived future suffering is not worth enduring. He killed himself because he was afraid of suffering. He was afraid of the natural process of dying. Is that the message we want to send about old age and dying? That it’s unnatural? Can anyone choose what age they think is old enough? Maybe it should be 65 years old, the retirement age. That would save the United States a lot of money for sure. Is this setting up the president for some sort of real life version of Logan‘s run?
    - oreally 1y ago
      I'm not sure if you even read the article nor his books, and I disagree with your interpretation of his actions because they have very extravagant presumptions, judging from your comments. I don't think he was afraid. I think he mapped out his late age future, and wanted to fast forward to what his next adventure even in post-death while leaving his last touches on the world a good one. Leaving the world a better place than when he started, as they say. > I’m less concerned about what was in his head than the message that he sends. As quoted from the article: Daniel Kahneman did not want to make a statement or start a debate. "I am not ashamed of my decision," he wrote, "but I don't want it to be discussed publicly either."

LorenPechtel 1y ago

That's not how I see it. It was seeing my father's death that really solidified it for me that there are things worse than death. I am not in the slightest depressed about it, though.