4 ms·

> camera manufacturers and film crews both do their best to produce a noise-free image This is not correct, camera manufacturers and filmakers engineer _aesthe

> camera manufacturers and film crews both do their best to produce a noise-free image This is not correct, camera manufacturers and filmakers engineer _aesthetically pleasing_ noise (randomized grains appear smoother to the human eye than clean uniform pixels). The rest is still as silly as it sounds.

benjiro 1y ago
> randomized grains appear smoother to the human eye than clean uniform pixels Does this explain why i dislike 4K content on a 4K TV? Where some series and movies look too realistic, what in turn gives me a amateur film feeling (like somebody made a movie with a smartphone).
- ZeroGravitas 1y ago
  This sounds like what is called the soap opera effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera_effect Which is generally associated with excess denoisong rather than with excess grain.
  - dataflow 1y ago
    Are you sure? That seems to be about motion interpolation. Not even about smooth motion, but about it being interpolated. Here the concern seems to be about how the individual, still images look, not anything about the motion between them.
    - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
      > some series and movies look too realistic, what in turn gives me a amateur film feeling This comment that I replied to is almost a textbook description of the soap opera effect. The interpolation adds more FPS, which is traditionally a marker of film vs TV production.
    - ycombinatrix 1y ago
      Avatar 2 was particularly egregious with the poor interpolation
- weaksauce 1y ago
  i think i've seen this effect on tv shot on cameras that were lower fps than the tv outputs. looks fake and bad and interpolated because it is.
franga2000 1y ago
Considering how much many camera brands boast their super low noise sensors, I'd still say a very common goal is to have as little noise as possible and then let the director/dop/colorist add grain to their liking. Even something like ARRI's in-camera switchable grain profiles requires a low-noise sensor to begin with. But yes, there are definitely also many DPs that like their grain baked-in and camera companies that design cameras for that kind of use.
- strogonoff 1y ago
  In any case, luma noise is not at all a massive issue, and it is a mistake to say that crews do their best to produce a noise-free image. They do their best to produce an image that they want to see, and some amount of luma noise is not a deal-breaker. There are routinely higher priorities that will take over using the lowest ISO possible. They can also be financial considerations, if you don’t have enough lights. It is only an issue in content delivery.

benjiro 1y ago

> randomized grains appear smoother to the human eye than clean uniform pixels Does this explain why i dislike 4K content on a 4K TV? Where some series and movies look too realistic, what in turn gives me a amateur film feeling (like somebody made a movie with a smartphone).

ZeroGravitas 1y ago
This sounds like what is called the soap opera effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap_opera_effect Which is generally associated with excess denoisong rather than with excess grain.
- dataflow 1y ago
  Are you sure? That seems to be about motion interpolation. Not even about smooth motion, but about it being interpolated. Here the concern seems to be about how the individual, still images look, not anything about the motion between them.
  - ZeroGravitas 1y ago
    > some series and movies look too realistic, what in turn gives me a amateur film feeling This comment that I replied to is almost a textbook description of the soap opera effect. The interpolation adds more FPS, which is traditionally a marker of film vs TV production.
  - ycombinatrix 1y ago
    Avatar 2 was particularly egregious with the poor interpolation
weaksauce 1y ago
i think i've seen this effect on tv shot on cameras that were lower fps than the tv outputs. looks fake and bad and interpolated because it is.

franga2000 1y ago

Considering how much many camera brands boast their super low noise sensors, I'd still say a very common goal is to have as little noise as possible and then let the director/dop/colorist add grain to their liking. Even something like ARRI's in-camera switchable grain profiles requires a low-noise sensor to begin with. But yes, there are definitely also many DPs that like their grain baked-in and camera companies that design cameras for that kind of use.

strogonoff 1y ago
In any case, luma noise is not at all a massive issue, and it is a mistake to say that crews do their best to produce a noise-free image. They do their best to produce an image that they want to see, and some amount of luma noise is not a deal-breaker. There are routinely higher priorities that will take over using the lowest ISO possible. They can also be financial considerations, if you don’t have enough lights. It is only an issue in content delivery.