7 ms·

The Declaration of Twitter Independence

hiphopopotamus 14y ago
Grow up. Twitter doesn't owe you anything.
- theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
  It's not about Twitter owing me, or anyone else for that matter, anything. If you release an API under the premise that developers are going to build apps that enhance and refine your existing service, then it is your responsibility to maintain a fair and open attitude towards them.
  - potatolicious 14y ago
    Responsibility is a strong word that is unwarranted. It would be nice for Twitter to continue to operate the API in an egalitarian and fair manner. They are under no responsibility to do anything. But that's besides the point. The crux of it is: Twitter took you all for a ride, and screwed you at the end. Your solution is to put together an online petition calling on the big bad man to see the light and do the right thing...? You've got nothing on Twitter, they have no reason to listen to any of you. It's time to cut your losses, move on, and learn your lessons about building on closed platforms.
    - theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
      I agree that they have no reason to listen. In all likelihood, no single thing that any one person can do is going to get them to care at all. It's more about the collective voice and reiterating that you can't treat your developer community like crap. Even if Twitter never listens, if this (or anything I write for that matter) causes anyone to think before they make a poor policy decision for their dev community, then I'd be a happy camper.
      - potatolicious 14y ago
        > "It's more about the collective voice and reiterating that you can't treat your developer community like crap." But they can. The rode the 3rd party ecosystem all the way to the top, and now you're no longer needed. They can do whatever they want, which really sucks, and is kind of a dick thing to do, but even collectively you (plural, as in the whole of Twitter's dev base) have no sway over Twitter now. I'm not condoning Twitter's actions, but IMO petitioning them when it's clear that this is the result of a major strategy shift, is just wasting your breath. It will aggravate you and be ultimately useless.
  - vanwilder77 14y ago
    well Twitter certainly does not want Developers, to build successful apps using their API's. So the only way to solve this problem would be just, stop using their services.
  - randomdrake 14y ago
    You can't effectively say "they don't owe me anything" and say "they owe us a fair and open attitude" in the same sentence and expect to be taken seriously. They don't owe you anything. You don't pay them for anything. There's risk in piggy backing on another service. There always has been and always will be. This same reaction occurs every single time an API gets closed, changed, or altered in ways that developers don't like. If anything, you provide a disservice to developers by invoking and promoting such a, pardon me but, whiny attitude towards something that should you should understand to be basic business.
    - HalcyonicStorm 14y ago
      Twitter does owe a fraction of its success to its developer ecosystem. By upsetting said ecosystem, they're hurting themselves.
      - randomdrake 14y ago
        I'm sorry but don't see what that has to do with the misplaced sense of personal entitlement.
        HalcyonicStorm 14y ago
        It's not about entitlement so much as don't piss off the people who add value to your platform
  - nollidge 14y ago
    I'm having a hard time viewing "responsibility to do something" and "owing someone something" as distinct ideas.
- mschonfeld 14y ago
  Actually, they do. Maybe not legally, but practically, Twitter owes many of its users to a handful of successful API clients. You can't just "use" developers (or, companies) to build up your user-base, and then as soon as it gets convenient for you, just ditch 'em all together...
  - ewillbefull 14y ago
    > You can't just "use" developers Actually, you can, they did, and any developers who thought they were entitled to anything from Twitter don't understand platform risk and learned a lesson.
    - justinhj 14y ago
      At some point you start losing users who are affected by apps they use suddenly not working any more. If they care to find out why it makes a bad impression. If it happens multiple times they will think about switching to a rival service. There's virtually nothing keeping users on Twitter if a rival service popped up and their friends started moving there.
      - csallen 14y ago
        > There's virtually nothing keeping users on Twitter if a rival service popped up and their friends started moving there. That's like saying, "There's virtually nothing keeping people on Earth if we develop cheap, reliable, faster-than-light space travel."
        justinhj 14y ago
        So you're saying creating a rival service to Twitter would be as hard as creating faster than light space travel? All I'm talking about is gradual migrations like the ones from geocities and myspace. In the case of those services users had a lot of content they'd created that they had to leave behind. By it's ephemeral nature Twitter has very little of that.
- toddh 14y ago
  To continue the analogy it would be as if George Washington agreed to become King instead of continuing the revolution and becoming president. Twitter promised to be a platform. A shining message bus on the hill. Twitter rejected the revolution and chose Kingship and monarchy. Are you surprised that people after laying down their time, their content, their development effort, and their dreams are a little pissed?
  - themckman 14y ago
    > Twitter promised to be a platform. A shining message bus on the hill. Serious question: Ignoring that little bit of melodrama/hyperbole in the last sentence, is this true?
gjulianm 14y ago
I'm sorry, but this is absurd. It's not tyrany and oppression, it's Twitter's API and they set the terms they want. You agree to those terms (and to the fact that Twitter can change them at will) the exact moment you start using the API. Twitter won't be affected in any way: they already said that they don't want third party clients. Developers creating apps that Twitter accepts (analytics, social media for business, etc) won't stop supporting Twitter (they would lose users, opportunities and money). Only developers who create "non-OK" apps would join this, and if we did Twitter would be happier than ever as they stopped us without any action on their part. And no, I don't support Twitter API changes, but we knew that we were taking risks when developing for a closed platform. EDIT: added last paragraph.
- theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
  The tyranny and oppression bit is satire. And disallowing the creation of third party clients is only a minor piece of a much larger puzzle. When good services like IFTTT are forced to stop using the API, there's obviously something wrong.
  - elliottcarlson 14y ago
    Twitter removed access for Instagram, Linkedin and Tumblr - IFTTT chose to remove features based on the new policy changes.
  - gjulianm 14y ago
    TC reports that IFTTT was actually infringing terms before the API changes: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/ifttt-has-actually-been-in-violation-of-twitters-api-for-months-todays-move-unrelated-to-1-1/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/ifttt-has-actually-been-in-.... I suppose that they've just noticed it and decided to take it down. And yes, of course there's something wrong. It's not fair to grow helped by third party apps and them trash them, but, as I said, we all knew that this could happen. We can't trust that any company won't be evil during all of its lifetime, specially when that company needs to show real money to investors.
  - debacle 14y ago
debacle 14y ago
> We hold these truths to be self-evident Really? Really guys? We're going to invoke the Declaration if Independence on an impotent campaign page about Twitter? Just stop using Twitter. Problem solved.
- missechokit 14y ago
  p-a-r-o-d-y
  - catshirt 14y ago
    is it?
  - debacle 14y ago
    What is this a parody of?
andrewnez 14y ago
Please just change the heading font to something more readable!
- theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
  Updated. Thanks for the suggestion
viseztrance 14y ago
"Fork the project on Github, and add yourself as a signer in a pull request." Seriously? Just because they redesigned the profiles to look like Facebook that doesn't make the forks the new "like".
- humbledrone 14y ago
  I actually thought that the whole "fork to add yourself" thing was interesting, in that it would add a tiny bit of weight to the signatures. The bar for signing is to have a Github account, and to know what "fork" and "pull request" are. The probability that someone who can add their signature is actually a developer is presumably somewhat higher than if there was a big green button that any disgruntled user could casually press. [EDIT] I don't use or care about Twitter, so I'm not trying to defend the goals of this particular petition. I just thought "fork to sign" was kind of interesting.
  - viseztrance 14y ago
    Say this catches on and you have two push requests, which one are you going use, because odds are you need to merge the second one by hand. This is not practical, but at least you get a fork.
    - theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
      I'll gladly manually merge in this case. It doesn't scale obviously, it's more novelty than anything else.
true_religion 14y ago
I think it might look better if you used a different cursive font, or even a print-press font rather than a cursive font.
- theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
  Have any specific ones in mind? I'm definitely open to this. Not happy with the readability
- theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
  I picked this guy http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/IM+Fell+English http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/IM+Fell+English
  - true_religion 14y ago
    The new font is much more readable. Cheers.
ctdonath 14y ago
Has anyone actually offered Twitter money for the API? Like, give Twitter a reason to allow access to their rather valuable data?
joshuahedlund 14y ago
What percent of developer frustration falls under "We're making money off Twitter without paying Twitter anything and now we're upset that we can't do that anymore"?
- gaius 14y ago
  I'm guessing... 100?
Buzaga 14y ago
I clicked for the headline but won't sign it because because it would mean I still have interest in using twitter as a developing platform and I don't. I rather just ignore it and let it fade away and hope it to take all it's egotic celebrities, teenies, morning-tv-moms, smartasses, attention seekers, ads, media & marketing businesses, and all the rest of waste with them, feeling good!
fromhet 14y ago
Develop for status.net then? They don't have the user base, but if you make a killer app that runs there but not on twitter, well, you'll still win. If not, it's twitters fault they will fail when all 3rd party devs get new projects.
Aloha 14y ago
The man who controls the press, controls the speech. Twitter undeniably controls the press in this case - they can do whatever they feel like.
interg12 14y ago
App.net
grazanaut 14y ago
I see there are about 10 signatories. Wow. Big :-/ Would a better "declaration-of-independence-by-github-fork" be to encourage people to fork tentd, and install to <insert free hosting service here>

Grow up. Twitter doesn't owe you anything.

theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
It's not about Twitter owing me, or anyone else for that matter, anything. If you release an API under the premise that developers are going to build apps that enhance and refine your existing service, then it is your responsibility to maintain a fair and open attitude towards them.
- potatolicious 14y ago
  Responsibility is a strong word that is unwarranted. It would be nice for Twitter to continue to operate the API in an egalitarian and fair manner. They are under no responsibility to do anything. But that's besides the point. The crux of it is: Twitter took you all for a ride, and screwed you at the end. Your solution is to put together an online petition calling on the big bad man to see the light and do the right thing...? You've got nothing on Twitter, they have no reason to listen to any of you. It's time to cut your losses, move on, and learn your lessons about building on closed platforms.
  - theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
    I agree that they have no reason to listen. In all likelihood, no single thing that any one person can do is going to get them to care at all. It's more about the collective voice and reiterating that you can't treat your developer community like crap. Even if Twitter never listens, if this (or anything I write for that matter) causes anyone to think before they make a poor policy decision for their dev community, then I'd be a happy camper.
    - potatolicious 14y ago
      > "It's more about the collective voice and reiterating that you can't treat your developer community like crap." But they can. The rode the 3rd party ecosystem all the way to the top, and now you're no longer needed. They can do whatever they want, which really sucks, and is kind of a dick thing to do, but even collectively you (plural, as in the whole of Twitter's dev base) have no sway over Twitter now. I'm not condoning Twitter's actions, but IMO petitioning them when it's clear that this is the result of a major strategy shift, is just wasting your breath. It will aggravate you and be ultimately useless.
- vanwilder77 14y ago
  well Twitter certainly does not want Developers, to build successful apps using their API's. So the only way to solve this problem would be just, stop using their services.
- randomdrake 14y ago
  You can't effectively say "they don't owe me anything" and say "they owe us a fair and open attitude" in the same sentence and expect to be taken seriously. They don't owe you anything. You don't pay them for anything. There's risk in piggy backing on another service. There always has been and always will be. This same reaction occurs every single time an API gets closed, changed, or altered in ways that developers don't like. If anything, you provide a disservice to developers by invoking and promoting such a, pardon me but, whiny attitude towards something that should you should understand to be basic business.
  - HalcyonicStorm 14y ago
    Twitter does owe a fraction of its success to its developer ecosystem. By upsetting said ecosystem, they're hurting themselves.
    - randomdrake 14y ago
      I'm sorry but don't see what that has to do with the misplaced sense of personal entitlement.
      - HalcyonicStorm 14y ago
        It's not about entitlement so much as don't piss off the people who add value to your platform
- nollidge 14y ago
  I'm having a hard time viewing "responsibility to do something" and "owing someone something" as distinct ideas.
mschonfeld 14y ago
Actually, they do. Maybe not legally, but practically, Twitter owes many of its users to a handful of successful API clients. You can't just "use" developers (or, companies) to build up your user-base, and then as soon as it gets convenient for you, just ditch 'em all together...
- ewillbefull 14y ago
  > You can't just "use" developers Actually, you can, they did, and any developers who thought they were entitled to anything from Twitter don't understand platform risk and learned a lesson.
  - justinhj 14y ago
    At some point you start losing users who are affected by apps they use suddenly not working any more. If they care to find out why it makes a bad impression. If it happens multiple times they will think about switching to a rival service. There's virtually nothing keeping users on Twitter if a rival service popped up and their friends started moving there.
    - csallen 14y ago
      > There's virtually nothing keeping users on Twitter if a rival service popped up and their friends started moving there. That's like saying, "There's virtually nothing keeping people on Earth if we develop cheap, reliable, faster-than-light space travel."
      - justinhj 14y ago
        So you're saying creating a rival service to Twitter would be as hard as creating faster than light space travel? All I'm talking about is gradual migrations like the ones from geocities and myspace. In the case of those services users had a lot of content they'd created that they had to leave behind. By it's ephemeral nature Twitter has very little of that.
toddh 14y ago
To continue the analogy it would be as if George Washington agreed to become King instead of continuing the revolution and becoming president. Twitter promised to be a platform. A shining message bus on the hill. Twitter rejected the revolution and chose Kingship and monarchy. Are you surprised that people after laying down their time, their content, their development effort, and their dreams are a little pissed?
- themckman 14y ago
  > Twitter promised to be a platform. A shining message bus on the hill. Serious question: Ignoring that little bit of melodrama/hyperbole in the last sentence, is this true?

I'm sorry, but this is absurd. It's not tyrany and oppression, it's Twitter's API and they set the terms they want. You agree to those terms (and to the fact that Twitter can change them at will) the exact moment you start using the API. Twitter won't be affected in any way: they already said that they don't want third party clients. Developers creating apps that Twitter accepts (analytics, social media for business, etc) won't stop supporting Twitter (they would lose users, opportunities and money). Only developers who create "non-OK" apps would join this, and if we did Twitter would be happier than ever as they stopped us without any action on their part. And no, I don't support Twitter API changes, but we knew that we were taking risks when developing for a closed platform. EDIT: added last paragraph.

theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
The tyranny and oppression bit is satire. And disallowing the creation of third party clients is only a minor piece of a much larger puzzle. When good services like IFTTT are forced to stop using the API, there's obviously something wrong.
- elliottcarlson 14y ago
  Twitter removed access for Instagram, Linkedin and Tumblr - IFTTT chose to remove features based on the new policy changes.
- gjulianm 14y ago
  TC reports that IFTTT was actually infringing terms before the API changes: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/ifttt-has-actually-been-in-violation-of-twitters-api-for-months-todays-move-unrelated-to-1-1/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/20/ifttt-has-actually-been-in-.... I suppose that they've just noticed it and decided to take it down. And yes, of course there's something wrong. It's not fair to grow helped by third party apps and them trash them, but, as I said, we all knew that this could happen. We can't trust that any company won't be evil during all of its lifetime, specially when that company needs to show real money to investors.
- debacle 14y ago

debacle 14y ago

> We hold these truths to be self-evident Really? Really guys? We're going to invoke the Declaration if Independence on an impotent campaign page about Twitter? Just stop using Twitter. Problem solved.

missechokit 14y ago
p-a-r-o-d-y
- catshirt 14y ago
  is it?
- debacle 14y ago
  What is this a parody of?

andrewnez 14y ago

Please just change the heading font to something more readable!

theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
Updated. Thanks for the suggestion

viseztrance 14y ago

"Fork the project on Github, and add yourself as a signer in a pull request." Seriously? Just because they redesigned the profiles to look like Facebook that doesn't make the forks the new "like".

humbledrone 14y ago
I actually thought that the whole "fork to add yourself" thing was interesting, in that it would add a tiny bit of weight to the signatures. The bar for signing is to have a Github account, and to know what "fork" and "pull request" are. The probability that someone who can add their signature is actually a developer is presumably somewhat higher than if there was a big green button that any disgruntled user could casually press. [EDIT] I don't use or care about Twitter, so I'm not trying to defend the goals of this particular petition. I just thought "fork to sign" was kind of interesting.
- viseztrance 14y ago
  Say this catches on and you have two push requests, which one are you going use, because odds are you need to merge the second one by hand. This is not practical, but at least you get a fork.
  - theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
    I'll gladly manually merge in this case. It doesn't scale obviously, it's more novelty than anything else.

true_religion 14y ago

I think it might look better if you used a different cursive font, or even a print-press font rather than a cursive font.

theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
Have any specific ones in mind? I'm definitely open to this. Not happy with the readability
theyCallMeSwift 14y ago
I picked this guy http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/IM+Fell+English http://www.google.com/webfonts/specimen/IM+Fell+English
- true_religion 14y ago
  The new font is much more readable. Cheers.

ctdonath 14y ago

Has anyone actually offered Twitter money for the API? Like, give Twitter a reason to allow access to their rather valuable data?

joshuahedlund 14y ago

What percent of developer frustration falls under "We're making money off Twitter without paying Twitter anything and now we're upset that we can't do that anymore"?

gaius 14y ago
I'm guessing... 100?

Buzaga 14y ago

I clicked for the headline but won't sign it because because it would mean I still have interest in using twitter as a developing platform and I don't. I rather just ignore it and let it fade away and hope it to take all it's egotic celebrities, teenies, morning-tv-moms, smartasses, attention seekers, ads, media & marketing businesses, and all the rest of waste with them, feeling good!

fromhet 14y ago

Develop for status.net then? They don't have the user base, but if you make a killer app that runs there but not on twitter, well, you'll still win. If not, it's twitters fault they will fail when all 3rd party devs get new projects.

Aloha 14y ago

The man who controls the press, controls the speech. Twitter undeniably controls the press in this case - they can do whatever they feel like.

interg12 14y ago

App.net

grazanaut 14y ago

I see there are about 10 signatories. Wow. Big :-/ Would a better "declaration-of-independence-by-github-fork" be to encourage people to fork tentd, and install to <insert free hosting service here>