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'But I don’t think the answer can be “violence is permissible when you can classify someone with a loaded term so vague that people regularly use it to describe

'But I don’t think the answer can be “violence is permissible when you can classify someone with a loaded term so vague that people regularly use it to describe expedited restaurant permitting”. ' This, I think, is the main point of the article. I don't disagree, and I tend to argue for at least trying to talk to people, but I admit that I am concerned about how much I am hesitating on even discussing some subjects with people.

PaulHoule 1y ago
Even George Orwell who fired a rifle at fascists eventually concluded that "The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’" https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel... I think the Charlie Kirk thing scared people straight for a few weeks but I've definitely seen an uptake of submissions to HN about various tempests in teapots such as the recent drama about an open source project that was big in 2005 and only niche since 2012 or something about waffles and now a laptop maker that tweeted a link to the wrong thing or something. There is still this emphasis by certain on canceling people at conferences and stuff because they are "fascists" but a lack of recognition that the democratic institutions that they like so much are putting "fascists" in power throughout the world -- and if they want it to be different they're going to have to stop dehumanizing people who vote the wrong way and talk to them. The message of "you are bad", "your society is bad" just doesn't sell, in fact Black people don't want to hear about they weighed down by the legacy of slavery, they want to maximize the life that's in front of them. Thing is that people find meaning in believing "society is bad" so it serves the interest of this selfish meme to put "fascists" in power; the Heritage Foundation or the Federalist Society or Fox News couldn't have done a better job engineering a fifth column for the left which would keep the right in power permanently.
- tastyface 1y ago
  In what sense is the current administration not a fascist one? They are consolidating plenary authority in the executive, erasing democratic norms, enacting lawfare against political enemies with the DOJ, abducting undesirables to torture camps in legally untouchable countries, pardoning convicted insurrectionists, and treating Blue areas like enemy territory -- up to and including military occupation. This is unprecedented in American politics since the Civil War. Not everyone to the right of the "far left" is a fascist, but the administration in power undeniably has a fascist core. And people who actually study this stuff professionally largely agree. "We are in the process of the second American Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."
  - johng 1y ago
    One could say the previous admin did all of those things.
    - tastyface 1y ago
      Yes, one could say a lot of things that are completely wrong. (One may also want to actually *say* the things and provide some evidence rather than gesticulating vaguely towards them.)
  - PaulHoule 1y ago
    Whether or not it is, the repetition of that word by you and your friends is a magic spell that brought that administration into reality. For years it has been "Kier Starmer is a fascist" or "White people are fascists" or "Your local police department is fascist", etc. A certain amount of blame can be laid at centrist politicians who can't take advantage of left-wing populist sentiments because they are too afraid of donors. [1] But an ultra-left that is obviously warming up the ovens for DHH because he said something stupid once and might come for me because I'm cisgender just seems fascinated with fascism because they're jealous the same way Charlie Kirk was fascinated with "cancel culture" because like David Horowitz he wished he could punish anyone in academia who he disagreed with. [1] Look at the donors who will give money to anyone who isn't Mamdani no matter how bad because they don't have faith in the ability of blue state institutions to completely frustrate and hamstring anyone who tries to do anything.
    - bryanlarsen 1y ago
      Using "warm up the ovens" as a synonym for "deplatform" is not helping this conversation.
    - dns_snek 1y ago
      Your answer to a long list of very specific arguments is vague gesturing in the general direction of an imaginary group of people whose only connection is that they happened to use a certain word sometime in the past 10 years? And these people who have never talked to one another are somehow to blame for the fascist reality they find themselves living in right now because a few of them made hyperbolic comments? I think labeling it victim-blaming doesn't do your rhetoric justice.

PaulHoule 1y ago

Even George Orwell who fired a rifle at fascists eventually concluded that "The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’" https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwell/essays-and-other-works/politics-and-the-english-language/ https://www.orwellfoundation.com/the-orwell-foundation/orwel... I think the Charlie Kirk thing scared people straight for a few weeks but I've definitely seen an uptake of submissions to HN about various tempests in teapots such as the recent drama about an open source project that was big in 2005 and only niche since 2012 or something about waffles and now a laptop maker that tweeted a link to the wrong thing or something. There is still this emphasis by certain on canceling people at conferences and stuff because they are "fascists" but a lack of recognition that the democratic institutions that they like so much are putting "fascists" in power throughout the world -- and if they want it to be different they're going to have to stop dehumanizing people who vote the wrong way and talk to them. The message of "you are bad", "your society is bad" just doesn't sell, in fact Black people don't want to hear about they weighed down by the legacy of slavery, they want to maximize the life that's in front of them. Thing is that people find meaning in believing "society is bad" so it serves the interest of this selfish meme to put "fascists" in power; the Heritage Foundation or the Federalist Society or Fox News couldn't have done a better job engineering a fifth column for the left which would keep the right in power permanently.

tastyface 1y ago
In what sense is the current administration not a fascist one? They are consolidating plenary authority in the executive, erasing democratic norms, enacting lawfare against political enemies with the DOJ, abducting undesirables to torture camps in legally untouchable countries, pardoning convicted insurrectionists, and treating Blue areas like enemy territory -- up to and including military occupation. This is unprecedented in American politics since the Civil War. Not everyone to the right of the "far left" is a fascist, but the administration in power undeniably has a fascist core. And people who actually study this stuff professionally largely agree. "We are in the process of the second American Revolution which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be."
- johng 1y ago
  One could say the previous admin did all of those things.
  - tastyface 1y ago
    Yes, one could say a lot of things that are completely wrong. (One may also want to actually *say* the things and provide some evidence rather than gesticulating vaguely towards them.)
- PaulHoule 1y ago
  Whether or not it is, the repetition of that word by you and your friends is a magic spell that brought that administration into reality. For years it has been "Kier Starmer is a fascist" or "White people are fascists" or "Your local police department is fascist", etc. A certain amount of blame can be laid at centrist politicians who can't take advantage of left-wing populist sentiments because they are too afraid of donors. [1] But an ultra-left that is obviously warming up the ovens for DHH because he said something stupid once and might come for me because I'm cisgender just seems fascinated with fascism because they're jealous the same way Charlie Kirk was fascinated with "cancel culture" because like David Horowitz he wished he could punish anyone in academia who he disagreed with. [1] Look at the donors who will give money to anyone who isn't Mamdani no matter how bad because they don't have faith in the ability of blue state institutions to completely frustrate and hamstring anyone who tries to do anything.
  - bryanlarsen 1y ago
    Using "warm up the ovens" as a synonym for "deplatform" is not helping this conversation.
  - dns_snek 1y ago
    Your answer to a long list of very specific arguments is vague gesturing in the general direction of an imaginary group of people whose only connection is that they happened to use a certain word sometime in the past 10 years? And these people who have never talked to one another are somehow to blame for the fascist reality they find themselves living in right now because a few of them made hyperbolic comments? I think labeling it victim-blaming doesn't do your rhetoric justice.