4 ms·

Pretty sure they had already spoiled it by giving it to F.W. de Klerk, Yasser Arafat, and Henry Kissinger.

by mjd 1y ago

yandrypozo 1y ago
oh wow I didn't know about those figures getting the price, super crazy!!
- aylmao 1y ago
  They famously never gave it to Gandhi too, in spite of him being nominated 5 times [1]. It's crazy to me that Kissinger got it, but not Gandhi. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies#Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies#Maha...
  - roncesvalles 1y ago
    Truly wild. Gandhi lived and breathed peace, almost to a fault. Kissinger is one of the last people on Earth among his contemporary to deserve it.
    - SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
      Kissinger's actions lead to a whole hell of a lot of people achieving the peace of the grave. I don't think that's what Alfred Nobel had in mind for the prize.
mavelikara 1y ago
And Aung San Suu Kyi.
portaouflop 1y ago
Insane that Kissinger got it
bilbo0s 1y ago
Yeah. I gotta agree. I'm not sure Obama was the straw that broke the camel's back in that particular regard. That said, it depends on how old you are. I think there are a lot of young people on HN, and for them, maybe that was a meaningful indication of a purportless Nobel Peace Prize? Some slightly older than them may have checked out with the whole Aung San Suu Kyi - Arafat - de Klerk thing. They don't really attach much import to that prize in any case because of the bad taste those picks left in their mouths. I guess I mean that every generation kind of learns anew that, "Hey.. wow, this prize doesn't really mean what it did even 60 years ago." It's definitely the Nobel Prize that's the most politically biased and least merited by winners at the median over the last 30-40 years.
- mjd 1y ago
  I left out Aung San Suu Kyi because I don't think that failure can be blamed on the Prize committee. It didn't become clear until many years later that she had been a bad choice.
pciexpgpu 1y ago
Can some ELI5 why Kissinger gets the heat all the time these days? Asking genuinely as a person who is not familiar with the US political climate before the 90s…
- dc396 1y ago
  A subset of the criticisms on Kissinger: • Vietnam War and Bombing of Cambodia: Kissinger played a key role in the secret bombing of Cambodia and the escalation of U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia, which expanded the conflict, resulted in significant civilian casualties, and destabilized the region, enabling the rise of the Khmer Rouge and contributing to mass deaths. • Bangladesh Genocide (1971): Kissinger and President Nixon strongly supported Pakistan’s military dictatorship during its violent suppression of Bangladesh’s independence movement, despite well-documented human rights abuses and U.S. officials’ warnings about atrocities. • Support for Dictatorships and Coups in Latin America: He was instrumental in U.S. support for right-wing military coups, notably the 1973 ouster of Chile’s democratically elected president Salvador Allende, and the subsequent support for General Pinochet’s regime, which was responsible for widespread human rights violations. Kissinger also backed Operation Condor, a campaign of repression and assassination by South American dictatorships. • Indonesia and East Timor: Kissinger has been implicated in supporting Indonesia’s 1975 invasion of East Timor, which led to widespread killings and humanitarian abuses. • Undermining U.S. Principles and Rule of Law: Kissinger’s tenure saw numerous secret operations and violations of U.S. and international law, including illegal arms transfers and covert interference in foreign elections and governments. • Sabotaging Vietnam Peace Talks: He was accused of interfering with peace negotiations in 1968, potentially prolonging the Vietnam War for political gain.
  - pciexpgpu 1y ago
    Thank you, TIL.
- mcmcmc 1y ago
  He was a war criminal and a Nixon crony who among other things started the US practice of overthrowing democratically elected regimes to install US backed military juntas
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

Pretty sure they had already spoiled it by giving it to F.W. de Klerk, Yasser Arafat, and Henry Kissinger.

by mjd 1y ago

Pretty sure they had already spoiled it by giving it to F.W. de Klerk, Yasser Arafat, and Henry Kissinger.

yandrypozo 1y ago

oh wow I didn't know about those figures getting the price, super crazy!!

aylmao 1y ago
They famously never gave it to Gandhi too, in spite of him being nominated 5 times [1]. It's crazy to me that Kissinger got it, but not Gandhi. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies#Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies#Maha...
- roncesvalles 1y ago
  Truly wild. Gandhi lived and breathed peace, almost to a fault. Kissinger is one of the last people on Earth among his contemporary to deserve it.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
    Kissinger's actions lead to a whole hell of a lot of people achieving the peace of the grave. I don't think that's what Alfred Nobel had in mind for the prize.

mavelikara 1y ago

And Aung San Suu Kyi.

portaouflop 1y ago

Insane that Kissinger got it

bilbo0s 1y ago

Yeah. I gotta agree. I'm not sure Obama was the straw that broke the camel's back in that particular regard. That said, it depends on how old you are. I think there are a lot of young people on HN, and for them, maybe that was a meaningful indication of a purportless Nobel Peace Prize? Some slightly older than them may have checked out with the whole Aung San Suu Kyi - Arafat - de Klerk thing. They don't really attach much import to that prize in any case because of the bad taste those picks left in their mouths. I guess I mean that every generation kind of learns anew that, "Hey.. wow, this prize doesn't really mean what it did even 60 years ago." It's definitely the Nobel Prize that's the most politically biased and least merited by winners at the median over the last 30-40 years.

mjd 1y ago
I left out Aung San Suu Kyi because I don't think that failure can be blamed on the Prize committee. It didn't become clear until many years later that she had been a bad choice.

pciexpgpu 1y ago

Can some ELI5 why Kissinger gets the heat all the time these days? Asking genuinely as a person who is not familiar with the US political climate before the 90s…

dc396 1y ago
A subset of the criticisms on Kissinger: • Vietnam War and Bombing of Cambodia: Kissinger played a key role in the secret bombing of Cambodia and the escalation of U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia, which expanded the conflict, resulted in significant civilian casualties, and destabilized the region, enabling the rise of the Khmer Rouge and contributing to mass deaths. • Bangladesh Genocide (1971): Kissinger and President Nixon strongly supported Pakistan’s military dictatorship during its violent suppression of Bangladesh’s independence movement, despite well-documented human rights abuses and U.S. officials’ warnings about atrocities. • Support for Dictatorships and Coups in Latin America: He was instrumental in U.S. support for right-wing military coups, notably the 1973 ouster of Chile’s democratically elected president Salvador Allende, and the subsequent support for General Pinochet’s regime, which was responsible for widespread human rights violations. Kissinger also backed Operation Condor, a campaign of repression and assassination by South American dictatorships. • Indonesia and East Timor: Kissinger has been implicated in supporting Indonesia’s 1975 invasion of East Timor, which led to widespread killings and humanitarian abuses. • Undermining U.S. Principles and Rule of Law: Kissinger’s tenure saw numerous secret operations and violations of U.S. and international law, including illegal arms transfers and covert interference in foreign elections and governments. • Sabotaging Vietnam Peace Talks: He was accused of interfering with peace negotiations in 1968, potentially prolonging the Vietnam War for political gain.
- pciexpgpu 1y ago
  Thank you, TIL.
mcmcmc 1y ago
He was a war criminal and a Nixon crony who among other things started the US practice of overthrowing democratically elected regimes to install US backed military juntas

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]