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Any meaning associated with the Nobel Peace Prize was demolished when Obama got it without having done anything meaningful except running a campaign on 'Hope'.
by groos 1y ago
Any meaning associated with the Nobel Peace Prize was demolished when Obama got it without having done anything meaningful except running a campaign on 'Hope'. This was the person that subsequently ok'd 3,000+ drone strikes in Afghanistan, a huge number of which caused heavy collateral damage. Imho, the Nobel Peace Prize should have no money associated with it and be given only posthumously.
- mjd 1y agoPretty sure they had already spoiled it by giving it to F.W. de Klerk, Yasser Arafat, and Henry Kissinger.
- yandrypozo 1y agooh wow I didn't know about those figures getting the price, super crazy!!
- aylmao 1y agoThey famously never gave it to Gandhi too, in spite of him being nominated 5 times [1]. It's crazy to me that Kissinger got it, but not Gandhi. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies#Mahatma_Gandhi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Prize_controversies#Maha...
- roncesvalles 1y agoTruly wild. Gandhi lived and breathed peace, almost to a fault. Kissinger is one of the last people on Earth among his contemporary to deserve it.
- SAI_Peregrinus 1y agoKissinger's actions lead to a whole hell of a lot of people achieving the peace of the grave. I don't think that's what Alfred Nobel had in mind for the prize.
- mavelikara 1y agoAnd Aung San Suu Kyi.
- portaouflop 1y agoInsane that Kissinger got it
- bilbo0s 1y agoYeah. I gotta agree. I'm not sure Obama was the straw that broke the camel's back in that particular regard. That said, it depends on how old you are. I think there are a lot of young people on HN, and for them, maybe that was a meaningful indication of a purportless Nobel Peace Prize? Some slightly older than them may have checked out with the whole Aung San Suu Kyi - Arafat - de Klerk thing. They don't really attach much import to that prize in any case because of the bad taste those picks left in their mouths. I guess I mean that every generation kind of learns anew that, "Hey.. wow, this prize doesn't really mean what it did even 60 years ago." It's definitely the Nobel Prize that's the most politically biased and least merited by winners at the median over the last 30-40 years.
- mjd 1y agoI left out Aung San Suu Kyi because I don't think that failure can be blamed on the Prize committee. It didn't become clear until many years later that she had been a bad choice.
- pciexpgpu 1y agoCan some ELI5 why Kissinger gets the heat all the time these days? Asking genuinely as a person who is not familiar with the US political climate before the 90s…
- dc396 1y agoA subset of the criticisms on Kissinger: • Vietnam War and Bombing of Cambodia: Kissinger played a key role in the secret bombing of Cambodia and the escalation of U.S. involvement in Southeast Asia, which expanded the conflict, resulted in significant civilian casualties, and destabilized the region, enabling the rise of the Khmer Rouge and contributing to mass deaths. • Bangladesh Genocide (1971): Kissinger and President Nixon strongly supported Pakistan’s military dictatorship during its violent suppression of Bangladesh’s independence movement, despite well-documented human rights abuses and U.S. officials’ warnings about atrocities. • Support for Dictatorships and Coups in Latin America: He was instrumental in U.S. support for right-wing military coups, notably the 1973 ouster of Chile’s democratically elected president Salvador Allende, and the subsequent support for General Pinochet’s regime, which was responsible for widespread human rights violations. Kissinger also backed Operation Condor, a campaign of repression and assassination by South American dictatorships. • Indonesia and East Timor: Kissinger has been implicated in supporting Indonesia’s 1975 invasion of East Timor, which led to widespread killings and humanitarian abuses. • Undermining U.S. Principles and Rule of Law: Kissinger’s tenure saw numerous secret operations and violations of U.S. and international law, including illegal arms transfers and covert interference in foreign elections and governments. • Sabotaging Vietnam Peace Talks: He was accused of interfering with peace negotiations in 1968, potentially prolonging the Vietnam War for political gain.
- pciexpgpu 1y agoThank you, TIL.
- mcmcmc 1y agoHe was a war criminal and a Nixon crony who among other things started the US practice of overthrowing democratically elected regimes to install US backed military juntas
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- kiddico 1y agoWhile I completely agree with the loss of actual meaning, however I do think it's nice that we tell people they did well while they're still alive. Assuming they did actually do something to deserve it that is.
- Forgeties79 1y agoObama can’t possibly be the catalyst for your disregard of the NPP. There were far more controversial picks for decades prior. This obsession with Obama’s award is just further evidence Fox News decides what we recall and get angry about. It comes up every single year. It’s a meme at this point. Obama but not Arafat or Kissinger? Get out of here lmao
- sys32768 1y agoArafat and Rabin received it for "their efforts to create peace in the Middle East." Kissinger and Lê Đức Thọ received it because they "jointly worked for a ceasefire and for bringing peace to Vietnam," though Lê Đức Thọ refused it and Kissinger did not attend the ceremony. Obama received it nine months into his Presidency for "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples," despite having few if any concrete foreign policy achievements. Obama could have at least matched Kissinger by ducking the ceremony, or even by refusing it like Lê Đức Thọ did because it wasn't justified.
- Forgeties79 1y agoI’m not saying I agree with his getting it but the amount of attention it has gotten and continues to get 17 years later is absolutely ridiculous
- bilbo0s 1y agoAmazing that we're actually debating which of the warlords created the most peace per fatality inflicted in a discussion on the merits of their Nobel Peace Prizes. That alone, in a sane world, would tell you these people had no business having a Nobel Peace Prize. At least Kissinger and Lê Đức Thọ had the common decency not to stand at that podium. Most of those other Nobel Peace Prize winners did not have that kind of self awareness.
- Forgeties79 1y agoThank you, you’re making my point far better than I am. The entire discussion is out of whack.
- etyhhgfff 1y agoTo be fair, the Obama administration specifically designed rockets that did not carry high explosives, but rather sharp blades intended to kill individuals with minimal risk of collateral damage.
- josefresco 1y agoYou didn't draw the line at Henry Kissinger, Yasser Arafat or even the European Union itself?!?
- 1718627440 1y agoDo you object to the EU? This was very much founded as a peace project.
- jonathanstrange 1y agoA very successful one so far. The current probability of a war between EU states should be close to 0.
- jeltz 1y agoThe EU is one of the most worthy winners if we read Nobel's will.
- notepad0x90 1y agoIf you're looking at it like how an athlete would get a gold medal, maybe? Even then, the fact that an unqualified person (such as with doping and cheating) was given a medal, doesn't take away from someone's accomplishment. But back on Obama, was your expectation that he wouldn't hurt a fly? Did he start a war? Did he not set the stage for withdrawing from two wars (both justified imho!)? Did he order the killing of anyone who wasn't a legitimate military target? I'm not saying he should have been given any award, and certainly his was premature, but it is hardly without precedent. The peace prize is given to leaders who worked towards peace. It gives them recognition, sort of like a pat on the back so they won't give up. Would you rather a retired politician get the prize so he can boast about it? or an active politician so that he now has the prize as a reminder of their promises and work towards peace? He said it best: "Throughout history, the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement; it's also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes," Obama said. "And that is why I will accept this award as a call to action—a call for all nations to confront the common challenges of the 21st century." Either way, in retrospect, him winning an election is in the long term arguably, and to no fault of his own, a catastrophe. But the US did pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan, and conflicts in Syira, Libya and all over the world sprung that were too easy for the US to be involved in but the US didn't. The US military responded to various natural disasters providing crucial aid, such as with the 2011 Haiti earthquake. I think this sentiment is held largely by people who don't want to be bothered by nuance and who have an immature concept of peace, one that doesn't involve violence or military action (despite concepts like "peace keeping force" existing).
- krustyburger 1y agoThe US did not pull out of Afghanistan under Obama.
- ToDougie 1y agoA minor detail, surely.
- notepad0x90 1y agoI said eventually, and he did set the stage for the pull out. he could have done the opposite and established longer term commitments. Honestly, my view is that both countries should have been incorporated as US territories. $20tn is not a small amount, and by virtue of being the aggressors, they've lost their right to self-rule (yes, even in without wmd's Saddam was taunting support for US's enemies).
- hypeatei 1y agoWhy does Trump want it so badly if it's just an award given to war mongers and drone strikers then?
- portaouflop 1y agoThere is only one possible explanation…
- cosmicgadget 1y ago... the one guy who made fun of him at a comedy dinner has one and he doesn't.
- cosmicgadget 1y agoTo paraphrase the Nobel writeup: he advocated international cooperation, denuclearization, social progress, and work to reverse climate change. This was against the backdrop of a president who lied to the UN so he could depose a dictator, initiated ground invasions of two countries, had a VP who openly advertised that he was okay with doing evil stuff to accomplish his objectives - e.g. Gitmo and Abu Graib, and created a regulatory environment that led to the GFC. That prize was awarded to Obama but it was meant for the US electorate for embracing what you reductively call "hope".
- watwut 1y agoAnd then electorate turned around and voted for Trump twice, republicans loosing their minds over president being black. And this year, Trump wanted the prize.
- mastodon_acc 1y agoThis is such a highly disingenuous bad faith argument, Obama won it in 2009, are you suggesting the Nobel committee should have used some time travel technology to peer into the future?
- tsimionescu 1y agoNo, the point is that Obama won it in 2009 when he had literally done nothing, except having won an election. The point about what happened after is just to show that the committee was not prescient and full of foresight, that it did turn out that the man who had simply won an election based on promises did not live up to those promises.
- dh2022 1y agoI was going to say Nobel Prize for Peace was irretrievably compromised when they gave it to Kissinger.