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I saw someone else mention this, it would be ironic if it were easier to run software of your choice via a VM on Android than simply install an apk. Nonetheless

I saw someone else mention this, it would be ironic if it were easier to run software of your choice via a VM on Android than simply install an apk. Nonetheless, I would love to see gpu acceleration being well supported. It's already insane how many old games can be emulated, and being able to run even just desktop versions of apps is excellent.

thewebguyd 1y ago
> it would be ironic if it were easier to run software of your choice via a VM on Android than simply install an apk That seems to be the road we are heading down, but I think some of it may be intentional. It's a way to shut up the masses without relinquishing control of the OS back to the user. Google's way of going "Here, we'll just "let" you run Linux" but it's also getting people used to the idea that Linux is just an "app" you run, the underlying OS still remains locked down as ever. The dangerous parts of Google's change isn't just not being able to run your own software, it's device attestation and the power that gives them (and Governments) to control what your computer can and cannot do. If Microsoft ever implements similar changes to Windows I'll view WSL the same way. It's just an illusion of freedom to placate us nerds.
- gizmo686 1y ago
  That's the world we are in. Operating systems in modern computers are pretty much just sandboxed apps being run by the firmware. On lower end phones, it is already common to have the OS that the firmware runs be a realtime hypervisor that multiplexes Android with a higher priority realtime OS to help drive the radio. > device attestation and the power that gives them (and Governments) to control what your computer can and cannot do. Device attastation is probably the least scary form of this. You still get to run whatever software you want; all you lose out on is the ability to interact with external services that demand attestation. This is a much more pro-consumer way of implementing DRM than actually locking down computers, which looked to be the way the industry was heading for years.
  - thewebguyd 1y ago
    > all you lose out on is the ability to interact with external services that demand attestation. That's the problem "lose out on the ability to function on modern society unless you use an approved device or an approved OS." Not looking forward to a world where I have to have two phones, one "approved government and bank services phone" and one that's a device I actually own and control. > This is a much more pro-consumer way of implementing DRM than actually locking down computers No such thing as pro-consumer DRM, it's an oxymoron. And Google IS locking down computers, requiring identity verification and Google to sign any app to run on Android, which conveniently they could pull at any time. What happens when online services stop even doing business via their website and forces the use of a mobile app? Suddenly now all Linux (and Mac and Windows) computers are locked out of interacting with most of the commercial web and you are forced to have a tracking device to simply exist. Maybe it's a "lesser evil" but it's still evil, and not something we should just settle on and accept.
    - Infernal 1y ago
      > one that's a device I actually own and control. Where do you find such a device today? Pixel with GrapheneOS? Any decent mobile Linux hardware I don’t know about?
      - jhasse 1y ago
        https://murena.com/products/smartphones/ https://murena.com/products/smartphones/
        npodbielski 1y ago
        /e/os is just lineage os fork? What does it give me over my one plus with linage os? Also if this is de googled probably banking apps won't work.
        ranger_danger 1y ago
        > one plus If you are concerned about privacy, why are you using a firmware-backdoored chinese phone?
- 1313ed01 1y ago
  Termux is the only thing making Android nerd-useful and Google could make it useless at any time by just tweaking some permissions (e.g. come up with a few more ways to restrict app access to the file-sysye m). I don't want a phone without convenient ssh or rsync support (or git or fossil), or having to find some app to use instead of all the already existing command-line tools that Termux provides. It is good enough that I am not in a hurry to try to go back to use some more open linux-based phone again, but definitely held back by not being allowed to be better integrated in the OS.
d3Xt3r 1y ago
It was probably me I think (I was commenting on how I'd rather install imagemagick in Termux than search for a bloated Android app that can shrink and convert images). Regarding your second point though, GPU acceleration in Termux/proot Linux is already well supported on most mainstream phones with Snapdragon GPUs (I belive Malis are also supported to some extent). You can actually play games like Skyrim at decent FPS if you've got a modern phone, and even modern games like Cyberpunk 2077 (although you'd need to be on the newest flagship for it to be playable). Check out the mobox project if you're interested: https://github.com/jaycore/mobox-patched https://github.com/jaycore/mobox-patched

thewebguyd 1y ago

> it would be ironic if it were easier to run software of your choice via a VM on Android than simply install an apk That seems to be the road we are heading down, but I think some of it may be intentional. It's a way to shut up the masses without relinquishing control of the OS back to the user. Google's way of going "Here, we'll just "let" you run Linux" but it's also getting people used to the idea that Linux is just an "app" you run, the underlying OS still remains locked down as ever. The dangerous parts of Google's change isn't just not being able to run your own software, it's device attestation and the power that gives them (and Governments) to control what your computer can and cannot do. If Microsoft ever implements similar changes to Windows I'll view WSL the same way. It's just an illusion of freedom to placate us nerds.

gizmo686 1y ago
That's the world we are in. Operating systems in modern computers are pretty much just sandboxed apps being run by the firmware. On lower end phones, it is already common to have the OS that the firmware runs be a realtime hypervisor that multiplexes Android with a higher priority realtime OS to help drive the radio. > device attestation and the power that gives them (and Governments) to control what your computer can and cannot do. Device attastation is probably the least scary form of this. You still get to run whatever software you want; all you lose out on is the ability to interact with external services that demand attestation. This is a much more pro-consumer way of implementing DRM than actually locking down computers, which looked to be the way the industry was heading for years.
- thewebguyd 1y ago
  > all you lose out on is the ability to interact with external services that demand attestation. That's the problem "lose out on the ability to function on modern society unless you use an approved device or an approved OS." Not looking forward to a world where I have to have two phones, one "approved government and bank services phone" and one that's a device I actually own and control. > This is a much more pro-consumer way of implementing DRM than actually locking down computers No such thing as pro-consumer DRM, it's an oxymoron. And Google IS locking down computers, requiring identity verification and Google to sign any app to run on Android, which conveniently they could pull at any time. What happens when online services stop even doing business via their website and forces the use of a mobile app? Suddenly now all Linux (and Mac and Windows) computers are locked out of interacting with most of the commercial web and you are forced to have a tracking device to simply exist. Maybe it's a "lesser evil" but it's still evil, and not something we should just settle on and accept.
  - Infernal 1y ago
    > one that's a device I actually own and control. Where do you find such a device today? Pixel with GrapheneOS? Any decent mobile Linux hardware I don’t know about?
    - jhasse 1y ago
      https://murena.com/products/smartphones/ https://murena.com/products/smartphones/
      - npodbielski 1y ago
        /e/os is just lineage os fork? What does it give me over my one plus with linage os? Also if this is de googled probably banking apps won't work.
        ranger_danger 1y ago
        > one plus If you are concerned about privacy, why are you using a firmware-backdoored chinese phone?
1313ed01 1y ago
Termux is the only thing making Android nerd-useful and Google could make it useless at any time by just tweaking some permissions (e.g. come up with a few more ways to restrict app access to the file-sysye m). I don't want a phone without convenient ssh or rsync support (or git or fossil), or having to find some app to use instead of all the already existing command-line tools that Termux provides. It is good enough that I am not in a hurry to try to go back to use some more open linux-based phone again, but definitely held back by not being allowed to be better integrated in the OS.

d3Xt3r 1y ago

It was probably me I think (I was commenting on how I'd rather install imagemagick in Termux than search for a bloated Android app that can shrink and convert images). Regarding your second point though, GPU acceleration in Termux/proot Linux is already well supported on most mainstream phones with Snapdragon GPUs (I belive Malis are also supported to some extent). You can actually play games like Skyrim at decent FPS if you've got a modern phone, and even modern games like Cyberpunk 2077 (although you'd need to be on the newest flagship for it to be playable). Check out the mobox project if you're interested: https://github.com/jaycore/mobox-patched https://github.com/jaycore/mobox-patched