5 ms·

Opposing a dictatorship at great personal risk, being exiled, banned from elections, and still leading a democratic movement isn't "nothing". I think this priz

Opposing a dictatorship at great personal risk, being exiled, banned from elections, and still leading a democratic movement isn't "nothing". I think this prize recognizes her courage and fight for human rights. Dismissing that as "just being in the opposition" ignores the reality of what it takes to stand up to Maduro's dictatorship.

catlikesshrimp 1y ago
Moreover, she had been doing that for over 20 years. I am surprised by all her determination, her courage, and her luck to still be alive.
- croes 1y ago
  Then the dictatorship can't be as bad as Russia for instance.The opposition dies pretty quickly there. Or fell out of windows.
  - ErneX 1y ago
    You think that doesn’t happen in Venezuela? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/fernando-alban-death-venezuela-opposition-politician-custody https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/fernando-alban...
  - catlikesshrimp 1y ago
    I suppose Venezuela has hope because it is a weak country with nominal US pressure agaisnt the current regime. Russia is self sufficient and has WMD (nuclear) On top of that, if I am not mistaken, Russia doesn't know what Democracy is. (Yeltsin and Medvedev up for discussion) As a result, for starters, Maduro can't make radical changes in the army.
    - croes 1y ago
      >As a result, for starters, Maduro can't make radical changes in the army. So it isn't as bad as Russia. Putin hasn't such boundaries.
rob74 1y ago
[flagged]
- scrollaway 1y ago
  It’s scary when the reality of the situation settles in, isn’t it? Scarier when you understand that 20 years is way too long an estimate for this. Europe is watching.
- lentil_soup 1y ago
  come on folks, no need to make everything about the US. The situation and evolution of Venezuela is vastly different. There are a lot of parallels, like with any other authoritarian government, and probably lessons the US opposition can learn, but don't equate the two as it overshadows the struggles Venezuelans have endured for 25+ years. Let them have their moment
- alejoar 1y ago
  Wow, ok. Comparing leading the Democratic Party in the US to leading a pro democracy movement under an actual dictatorship is a wild take. It completely banalizes the risks people like Machado face just for opposing authoritarian power. Pretending there's any equivalence between the two situations says a lot about your worldview, or lack thereof.
  - rob74 1y ago
    Ok, I guess we'll see in 20 years (you did read the "20 years" part I hope?) if my assessment is correct. It was maybe a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I don't have any doubts that Trump would like to be an "actual dictator" and is actively testing how far he can expand the limits of his power. Democracy in the US is more established than in other countries that have had authoritarian takeovers in recent years (Hungary, Turkey, Russia etc.), but we'll see if it's resilient enough.
    - netsharc 1y ago
      [flagged]
beernet 1y ago
Exactly this. This dismissal itself is a large part of the problem. The audacity, wow.
weli 1y ago
I'm not saying that she isn't a good politician or that what she is doing is not a step in the right direction. I personally like her. All I'm saying is that she hasn't accomplished anything meaningful to merit the Nobel prize. That's like giving the Nobel in physics to someone that has worked all their life publishing papers but they all have been refuted and proven wrong. I don't think "prize" for the merit of being relentless in their fight for publishing physics papers is merited, maybe a different honor, but Peace Nobels should be given to - and i quote -: "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."
- bratwurst3000 1y ago
  if you fight for justice peace and humanity the fight is the thing acomplished. standing up and risking their lives for the good of humanity merrits more then a nobel price can give!
- vasco 1y ago
  Can you list which of the recent nobel peace prizes were attributed according to your standards?
  - weli 1y ago
    They are not my standards. They are the Nobel Peace committee's standards. And I do agree Nobel Peace prizes are purely performative, but this one alongside Barack Obama has been one of the most performative ones I can remember.
    - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
      > They are the Nobel Peace committee's standards I think they're older than that, Nobel apparently left a will that included three conditions for what we today call the Nobel Peace Prize: > and one part to the person who has done the most or best to advance fellowship among nations, the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and the establishment and promotion of peace congresses. https://www.nobelprize.org/alfred-nobel/full-text-of-alfred-nobels-will-2/ https://www.nobelprize.org/alfred-nobel/full-text-of-alfred-...
Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
Not to diminish her valor and heroism. Mad respect. But how is that actually about peace? A dictatorship can be peaceful, and a democracy can be warlike. Venezuela hasn't been involved in any war recently as far as I know. Of course people who fight for democracy deserve being praised and supported, but to me it looks odd to do so with a peace prize. The prize is supposed to be awarded to people who have "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses". Is this the case here?
- CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
  There is something called "democratic peace theory" which argues that democracies are less likely to attack other democracies, compared to other forms. So I guess you could also claim that democracy helps maintain peace from that point of view, and a person who successfully proved that a "democratic election" really wasn't democratic at all feels like the right thing to award, as it'll further international peace. edit: the submission article also talks briefly about how peace and democracy is linked (in their eyes): > Democracy is a precondition for lasting peace. However, we live in a world where democracy is in retreat, where more and more authoritarian regimes are challenging norms and resorting to violence. The Venezuelan regime’s rigid hold on power and its repression of the population are not unique in the world. We see the same trends globally: rule of law abused by those in control, free media silenced, critics imprisoned, and societies pushed towards authoritarian rule and militarisation. In 2024, more elections were held than ever before, but fewer and fewer are free and fair.
  - dormento 1y ago
    > Democracy is a precondition for lasting peace Op's comment was about how this is not a given. Though tbf I can't recall any "peaceful" dictatorships, while I can recall a few war-happy democracies.
    - Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
      In my own country, Spain, the Francoist dictatorship (1939–1975) never attacked other countries or participated in any foreign wars (beyond sending a division of volunteers to WWII). Its domestic policy was highly repressive with common execution of political dissidents, etc., but in the sense of "no war" it was peaceful. The same goes for Salazar's Portugal, Hoxha’s Albania or Tito's Yugoslavia.
k3vinw 1y ago
That personal risk includes having yourself or loved ones thrown in prison without any contact to the outside world for however long the dictatorship sees fit. It’s a very sad history of oppression and corruption that has forced many Venezuelans to pull up their roots and risk their lives leaving their own country. It would be a dream come true to see this dictatorship overthrown and replaced by a democratic system of government that serves the people.

catlikesshrimp 1y ago

Moreover, she had been doing that for over 20 years. I am surprised by all her determination, her courage, and her luck to still be alive.

croes 1y ago
Then the dictatorship can't be as bad as Russia for instance.The opposition dies pretty quickly there. Or fell out of windows.
- ErneX 1y ago
  You think that doesn’t happen in Venezuela? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/fernando-alban-death-venezuela-opposition-politician-custody https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/09/fernando-alban...
- catlikesshrimp 1y ago
  I suppose Venezuela has hope because it is a weak country with nominal US pressure agaisnt the current regime. Russia is self sufficient and has WMD (nuclear) On top of that, if I am not mistaken, Russia doesn't know what Democracy is. (Yeltsin and Medvedev up for discussion) As a result, for starters, Maduro can't make radical changes in the army.
  - croes 1y ago
    >As a result, for starters, Maduro can't make radical changes in the army. So it isn't as bad as Russia. Putin hasn't such boundaries.

rob74 1y ago

[flagged]

scrollaway 1y ago
It’s scary when the reality of the situation settles in, isn’t it? Scarier when you understand that 20 years is way too long an estimate for this. Europe is watching.
lentil_soup 1y ago
come on folks, no need to make everything about the US. The situation and evolution of Venezuela is vastly different. There are a lot of parallels, like with any other authoritarian government, and probably lessons the US opposition can learn, but don't equate the two as it overshadows the struggles Venezuelans have endured for 25+ years. Let them have their moment
alejoar 1y ago
Wow, ok. Comparing leading the Democratic Party in the US to leading a pro democracy movement under an actual dictatorship is a wild take. It completely banalizes the risks people like Machado face just for opposing authoritarian power. Pretending there's any equivalence between the two situations says a lot about your worldview, or lack thereof.
- rob74 1y ago
  Ok, I guess we'll see in 20 years (you did read the "20 years" part I hope?) if my assessment is correct. It was maybe a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I don't have any doubts that Trump would like to be an "actual dictator" and is actively testing how far he can expand the limits of his power. Democracy in the US is more established than in other countries that have had authoritarian takeovers in recent years (Hungary, Turkey, Russia etc.), but we'll see if it's resilient enough.
  - netsharc 1y ago
    [flagged]

beernet 1y ago

Exactly this. This dismissal itself is a large part of the problem. The audacity, wow.

weli 1y ago

I'm not saying that she isn't a good politician or that what she is doing is not a step in the right direction. I personally like her. All I'm saying is that she hasn't accomplished anything meaningful to merit the Nobel prize. That's like giving the Nobel in physics to someone that has worked all their life publishing papers but they all have been refuted and proven wrong. I don't think "prize" for the merit of being relentless in their fight for publishing physics papers is merited, maybe a different honor, but Peace Nobels should be given to - and i quote -: "to the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

bratwurst3000 1y ago
if you fight for justice peace and humanity the fight is the thing acomplished. standing up and risking their lives for the good of humanity merrits more then a nobel price can give!
vasco 1y ago
Can you list which of the recent nobel peace prizes were attributed according to your standards?
- weli 1y ago
  They are not my standards. They are the Nobel Peace committee's standards. And I do agree Nobel Peace prizes are purely performative, but this one alongside Barack Obama has been one of the most performative ones I can remember.
  - CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
    > They are the Nobel Peace committee's standards I think they're older than that, Nobel apparently left a will that included three conditions for what we today call the Nobel Peace Prize: > and one part to the person who has done the most or best to advance fellowship among nations, the abolition or reduction of standing armies, and the establishment and promotion of peace congresses. https://www.nobelprize.org/alfred-nobel/full-text-of-alfred-nobels-will-2/ https://www.nobelprize.org/alfred-nobel/full-text-of-alfred-...

Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago

Not to diminish her valor and heroism. Mad respect. But how is that actually about peace? A dictatorship can be peaceful, and a democracy can be warlike. Venezuela hasn't been involved in any war recently as far as I know. Of course people who fight for democracy deserve being praised and supported, but to me it looks odd to do so with a peace prize. The prize is supposed to be awarded to people who have "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses". Is this the case here?

CaptainOfCoit 1y ago
There is something called "democratic peace theory" which argues that democracies are less likely to attack other democracies, compared to other forms. So I guess you could also claim that democracy helps maintain peace from that point of view, and a person who successfully proved that a "democratic election" really wasn't democratic at all feels like the right thing to award, as it'll further international peace. edit: the submission article also talks briefly about how peace and democracy is linked (in their eyes): > Democracy is a precondition for lasting peace. However, we live in a world where democracy is in retreat, where more and more authoritarian regimes are challenging norms and resorting to violence. The Venezuelan regime’s rigid hold on power and its repression of the population are not unique in the world. We see the same trends globally: rule of law abused by those in control, free media silenced, critics imprisoned, and societies pushed towards authoritarian rule and militarisation. In 2024, more elections were held than ever before, but fewer and fewer are free and fair.
- dormento 1y ago
  > Democracy is a precondition for lasting peace Op's comment was about how this is not a given. Though tbf I can't recall any "peaceful" dictatorships, while I can recall a few war-happy democracies.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 1y ago
    In my own country, Spain, the Francoist dictatorship (1939–1975) never attacked other countries or participated in any foreign wars (beyond sending a division of volunteers to WWII). Its domestic policy was highly repressive with common execution of political dissidents, etc., but in the sense of "no war" it was peaceful. The same goes for Salazar's Portugal, Hoxha’s Albania or Tito's Yugoslavia.

k3vinw 1y ago

That personal risk includes having yourself or loved ones thrown in prison without any contact to the outside world for however long the dictatorship sees fit. It’s a very sad history of oppression and corruption that has forced many Venezuelans to pull up their roots and risk their lives leaving their own country. It would be a dream come true to see this dictatorship overthrown and replaced by a democratic system of government that serves the people.