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Same for me... I had been tracking Datastar for months, waiting for the 1.0.0 release. But my enthusiasm for Datastar has now evaporated. I've been bitten by

Same for me... I had been tracking Datastar for months, waiting for the 1.0.0 release. But my enthusiasm for Datastar has now evaporated. I've been bitten by the open-source-but-not-really bait and switch too many times before.

osigurdson 1y ago
Maintainers need a way to maintain during the day - not just evenings and weekends. Otherwise it eventually dies.
- imjonse 1y ago
  Does HTMX have a pro version? Is it dead?
  - intrasight 1y ago
    Far from dead. Usage is growing. HTMX is a single htmx.js file with like 4000 lines of pretty clearly written code. It purports to - and I think succeeds - in adding a couple of missing hypermedia features to HTML. It's not a "framework" - good It's not serverside - good Need to add a feature? Just edit htmx.js
    - sgt 1y ago
      Some people will get a fit once they find out it's JS, and not TypeScript.
      - zenmac 1y ago
        No body is preventing them to write a layer of ts definition on top of the js. Check out postgres.js
  - sudodevnull 1y ago
    Yes look at the active issues on GitHub. There's hundreds and some going back years with no traction.
    - yawaramin 1y ago
      I don't think open issues is a fair way to judge project liveness. TypeScript also has hundreds of open issues going back years with no traction. Is TypeScript dead?
      - sudodevnull 1y ago
        Yes, issues that are years old show me the commitment level. Not a knock against HTMX but a clear sign of priorities. Carson is free to meme all day and talk about other projects. It's very clear where he stands and that's fine
        yawaramin 1y ago
        It was a rhetorical question; the answer is no, old issues with no updates don't necessarily indicate anything about the health of the project. Different people have different project management styles. You use your style for your project, and Carson uses his for htmx. There's no one correct way to manage an issue backlog.
        ncruces 1y ago
        My project is really healthy then, as I summarily close issues as “not planned” rather than leave them open.
        recursivedoubts 1y ago
        this year I created and released fixi.js, created the montana mini computer (https://mtmc.cs.montana.edu https://mtmc.cs.montana.edu), published an paper on hypermedia via the ACM, got hyperscript to 1.0, released 3 versions of htmx, reworked all the classes that I teach at montana state and am planning on releasing a java-based take on rails that I'm building for my web programming class i am also the president of the local youth baseball program and helped get BigSkyDevCon over the hump i think you'd be surprised at how little time i actually spend on twitter
  - osigurdson 1y ago
    It will be, eventually, unless a maintainer is able to maintain during the day. It doesn't matter what the source of free time is however: retired, rich, runs a company from their open source project, paid by somebody else, etc., but full time job + open source maintainer = dead project, eventually.
  - recursivedoubts 1y ago
    htmx isn't dead, but, from a semantic stand point, it's pretty done: https://htmx.org/essays/future/ https://htmx.org/essays/future/ there are bugs, but we have to trade off fixes against potentially breaking users sites that depend on (sometimes implicitly) the current behavior this makes me very hesitant to make changes and accept PRs, but i also feel bad closing old issues without really diving deep into them such is life in open source
CuriouslyC 1y ago
As someone who wants to write open source but needs to be able to capture some financial value from doing that to be able to make it sustainable, what model do you prefer? My current thoughts lean towards a fully functional open source product with a HashiCorp style BSL and commercial licensing for teams above a size threshold.
- danryan 1y ago
  Sell support.
  - 1dom 1y ago
    I can't imagine that works very well for relatively small, simple, functional or intuitive projects though. Incentives wise, is it possible to sell reverse support: extracting payment for all the times the product works so well that support isn't needed?
  - sudodevnull 1y ago
    That doesn't work. My day job is at scenario working on NATS and I can tell you 99.9% of people don't pay for support
    - CuriouslyC 1y ago
      As a NATS user, I can say that's mostly because it just works and when it doesn't it's pretty easy to figure out :)
      - sudodevnull 1y ago
        yep, and you'd think someone that has seen that would pick a different model... idk, ngmi
  - abirch 1y ago
    Selling support can be rough. I talked with the developer of PyMol. Many corporations wouldn't buy licenses and those that would pay for support wanted support for hardware that was 2 or 3 generations old. Gentle reminder: please encourage your corporation to pay for open source support whenever possible.
hmans 1y ago
[dead]
sudodevnull 1y ago
source is MIT, do what you want. The team found certain plugins to be anti-patterns and support burdens. You can find the old plugins in the repo source, feel free to fork from there!
- agos 1y ago
  Wait so you pay to use the anti patterns? That’s a new one.

osigurdson 1y ago

Maintainers need a way to maintain during the day - not just evenings and weekends. Otherwise it eventually dies.

imjonse 1y ago
Does HTMX have a pro version? Is it dead?
- intrasight 1y ago
  Far from dead. Usage is growing. HTMX is a single htmx.js file with like 4000 lines of pretty clearly written code. It purports to - and I think succeeds - in adding a couple of missing hypermedia features to HTML. It's not a "framework" - good It's not serverside - good Need to add a feature? Just edit htmx.js
  - sgt 1y ago
    Some people will get a fit once they find out it's JS, and not TypeScript.
    - zenmac 1y ago
      No body is preventing them to write a layer of ts definition on top of the js. Check out postgres.js
- sudodevnull 1y ago
  Yes look at the active issues on GitHub. There's hundreds and some going back years with no traction.
  - yawaramin 1y ago
    I don't think open issues is a fair way to judge project liveness. TypeScript also has hundreds of open issues going back years with no traction. Is TypeScript dead?
    - sudodevnull 1y ago
      Yes, issues that are years old show me the commitment level. Not a knock against HTMX but a clear sign of priorities. Carson is free to meme all day and talk about other projects. It's very clear where he stands and that's fine
      - yawaramin 1y ago
        It was a rhetorical question; the answer is no, old issues with no updates don't necessarily indicate anything about the health of the project. Different people have different project management styles. You use your style for your project, and Carson uses his for htmx. There's no one correct way to manage an issue backlog.
      - ncruces 1y ago
        My project is really healthy then, as I summarily close issues as “not planned” rather than leave them open.
      - recursivedoubts 1y ago
        this year I created and released fixi.js, created the montana mini computer (https://mtmc.cs.montana.edu https://mtmc.cs.montana.edu), published an paper on hypermedia via the ACM, got hyperscript to 1.0, released 3 versions of htmx, reworked all the classes that I teach at montana state and am planning on releasing a java-based take on rails that I'm building for my web programming class i am also the president of the local youth baseball program and helped get BigSkyDevCon over the hump i think you'd be surprised at how little time i actually spend on twitter
- osigurdson 1y ago
  It will be, eventually, unless a maintainer is able to maintain during the day. It doesn't matter what the source of free time is however: retired, rich, runs a company from their open source project, paid by somebody else, etc., but full time job + open source maintainer = dead project, eventually.
- recursivedoubts 1y ago
  htmx isn't dead, but, from a semantic stand point, it's pretty done: https://htmx.org/essays/future/ https://htmx.org/essays/future/ there are bugs, but we have to trade off fixes against potentially breaking users sites that depend on (sometimes implicitly) the current behavior this makes me very hesitant to make changes and accept PRs, but i also feel bad closing old issues without really diving deep into them such is life in open source

CuriouslyC 1y ago

As someone who wants to write open source but needs to be able to capture some financial value from doing that to be able to make it sustainable, what model do you prefer? My current thoughts lean towards a fully functional open source product with a HashiCorp style BSL and commercial licensing for teams above a size threshold.

danryan 1y ago
Sell support.
- 1dom 1y ago
  I can't imagine that works very well for relatively small, simple, functional or intuitive projects though. Incentives wise, is it possible to sell reverse support: extracting payment for all the times the product works so well that support isn't needed?
- sudodevnull 1y ago
  That doesn't work. My day job is at scenario working on NATS and I can tell you 99.9% of people don't pay for support
  - CuriouslyC 1y ago
    As a NATS user, I can say that's mostly because it just works and when it doesn't it's pretty easy to figure out :)
    - sudodevnull 1y ago
      yep, and you'd think someone that has seen that would pick a different model... idk, ngmi
- abirch 1y ago
  Selling support can be rough. I talked with the developer of PyMol. Many corporations wouldn't buy licenses and those that would pay for support wanted support for hardware that was 2 or 3 generations old. Gentle reminder: please encourage your corporation to pay for open source support whenever possible.

hmans 1y ago

[dead]

sudodevnull 1y ago

source is MIT, do what you want. The team found certain plugins to be anti-patterns and support burdens. You can find the old plugins in the repo source, feel free to fork from there!

agos 1y ago
Wait so you pay to use the anti patterns? That’s a new one.