4 ms·

I bought a BahnCard 50 subscription last year, for 12 months. After 11 months (=before the current subscripion expired) they automatically renewed the subscript

by iammjm 1y ago

I bought a BahnCard 50 subscription last year, for 12 months. After 11 months (=before the current subscripion expired) they automatically renewed the subscription by additional 12 months. Seeing their confirmation email I contacted them within 30mins of receiving it, politely requesting to please cancel the subscription because it was renewed without my knowledge or confirmation. My request was declined and they "offered" to cancel my BahnCard for the next year, in 13 months! Very annoying, as I even had a calender remainder set, but I didnt think they would renew before the current subscription expires. Who does that?? Also I am a good customer that has already spent thousands of € on DeutscheBahn.

croisillon 1y ago
they did the same to me, 20 years ago, i complained and got my money back, i thought this was not leagal anymore
ahartmetz 1y ago
The trick is to cancel stuff immediately after signing up if you don't firmly plan to continue using it. It becomes effective after the minimum duration.
- lxgr 1y ago
  I started doing this for almost all subscriptions a while ago. Presumably in response to this, some services now show a very ambiguous warning when canceling, leaving it open whether the cancellation will become effective immediately or at the end of the first subscription period. Subscription management really ought to be taken away from the companies providing the service to the payment method (not that that's ever going to realistically happen without legislation though, due to the incentives).
  - ahartmetz 1y ago
    I got that from Amazon Prime (free month of Prime, I never paid for it). I don't recall other services doing that, but I've also never subscribed to many of the popular ones like Netflix and such.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      Apple's various services do it too, but not consistently, and usually only for free trials (in which case, fair enough to be honest).
kwanbix 1y ago
This is a very German thing. Most contracts are yearly contracts the first two years, and you have to cancel at most 3 months before the next year starts. On the third year, the contracts become monthly contracts. However, if you do any change in the contract, it starts again. For example, if you have internet for 5 years, and request a speed change, it starts again to count the 2 years. Absolutely crazy from my non-german point of view. In my home country the first year is a full year, and it becomes monthly cancelable afterwards for things like internet, where they subsidize the installation and the modem. But in Germany, I was charged 120 dollars for the installation, and had to pay for the modem.
leobg 1y ago
I’d think this is illegal since 2022. You may want to check. https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/0228_faire_Verbrauchervertraege.html https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/02...
- ketzu 1y ago
  The Verbraucherschutz sued over this, and, apparently, BahnCard is not covered by this regulations as it is a (paid) Bonus programme, not a service or product in itself. At least that's what I got from the summary here: https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-laenger-kuendigen-5047292-0/ https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-la...
  - leobg 1y ago
    Is there a binding precedent (like a BGH or OLG ruling), or is that just someone’s theory that it’s not covered? I did not check. If there is no binding ruling, your Amtsgericht judge may see things differently. Even if the law didn’t cover it directly, I’d wonder about the spirit of the law. If contracts are covered where an actual service is rendered, shouldn’t that apply all the more to mere bonus programmes? I see no justification in treating these differently. Again, no research done - just a prima facie smell test.
    - ketzu 1y ago
      I only quickly searched after your comment, but it seems to be an OLG ruling [1] [1] https://www.rv.hessenrecht.hessen.de/bshe/document/LARE250000482 https://www.rv.hessenrecht.hessen.de/bshe/document/LARE25000...

by iammjm 1y ago

croisillon 1y ago

they did the same to me, 20 years ago, i complained and got my money back, i thought this was not leagal anymore

ahartmetz 1y ago

The trick is to cancel stuff immediately after signing up if you don't firmly plan to continue using it. It becomes effective after the minimum duration.

lxgr 1y ago
I started doing this for almost all subscriptions a while ago. Presumably in response to this, some services now show a very ambiguous warning when canceling, leaving it open whether the cancellation will become effective immediately or at the end of the first subscription period. Subscription management really ought to be taken away from the companies providing the service to the payment method (not that that's ever going to realistically happen without legislation though, due to the incentives).
- ahartmetz 1y ago
  I got that from Amazon Prime (free month of Prime, I never paid for it). I don't recall other services doing that, but I've also never subscribed to many of the popular ones like Netflix and such.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    Apple's various services do it too, but not consistently, and usually only for free trials (in which case, fair enough to be honest).

kwanbix 1y ago

This is a very German thing. Most contracts are yearly contracts the first two years, and you have to cancel at most 3 months before the next year starts. On the third year, the contracts become monthly contracts. However, if you do any change in the contract, it starts again. For example, if you have internet for 5 years, and request a speed change, it starts again to count the 2 years. Absolutely crazy from my non-german point of view. In my home country the first year is a full year, and it becomes monthly cancelable afterwards for things like internet, where they subsidize the installation and the modem. But in Germany, I was charged 120 dollars for the installation, and had to pay for the modem.

leobg 1y ago

I’d think this is illegal since 2022. You may want to check. https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/0228_faire_Verbrauchervertraege.html https://www.bmjv.de/SharedDocs/Pressemitteilungen/DE/2022/02...

ketzu 1y ago
The Verbraucherschutz sued over this, and, apparently, BahnCard is not covered by this regulations as it is a (paid) Bonus programme, not a service or product in itself. At least that's what I got from the summary here: https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-laenger-kuendigen-5047292-0/ https://www.test.de/Deutsche-Bahn-Kunden-koennen-Bahncard-la...
- leobg 1y ago
  Is there a binding precedent (like a BGH or OLG ruling), or is that just someone’s theory that it’s not covered? I did not check. If there is no binding ruling, your Amtsgericht judge may see things differently. Even if the law didn’t cover it directly, I’d wonder about the spirit of the law. If contracts are covered where an actual service is rendered, shouldn’t that apply all the more to mere bonus programmes? I see no justification in treating these differently. Again, no research done - just a prima facie smell test.
  - ketzu 1y ago
    I only quickly searched after your comment, but it seems to be an OLG ruling [1] [1] https://www.rv.hessenrecht.hessen.de/bshe/document/LARE250000482 https://www.rv.hessenrecht.hessen.de/bshe/document/LARE25000...